Check out my very cool and relevant post from yesterday: https://hexbear.net/post/4416473

I am critiquing from a Marxist perspective, of which Decolonialism is a large part. “Hexbear consensus” doesn’t really exist because hexbear is a mish mash of competing ideologies

This is valid, and welcome, comrade-to-comrade. I don’t think that your original post(s) could be characterized as “critique”. We don’t need to be terse with each other here like with other platforms. I do appreciate that you posted something more substantial, so we can have a discussion about this topic, and hopefully refine both of our ideas.

As to the content of your post:

I do understand where you are coming from. I don’t fully disagree with you. I do want to clarify a few things that are foundational to this “thought experiment” of sorts (it is just online posting, it isn’t real):

• “Cascadiaposting” is more of a bit, and occasional rhetorical tool that is useful to discussions with liberals that have genuinely progressive convictions, than anything that exists in the real world. It is useful because many of these people need to be offered license to hold the belief that it’s ok to dislike or oppose the United States, and that there is nothing about it that is worth saving. This is the core belief that (I hope) you and I agree on.
• The full name of this ideology could be considered “Socialism with Cascadian Characteristics”. Another thing that you and I presumably agree on, is that the settler-colonial character of the United States must be undermined as part of a revolutionary movement (as with other aspects of the regime). The critique you are bringing forth (as I stated above) is totally valid, and must be incorporated, if this were real.
• I’m curious what the actual theory of change would be for this part of the world. I guess maybe one thing that you and I disagree on is that I don’t think it will be possible to develop into a fully post-settler-colonial society in the foreseeable future given the current material conditions of this part of the world. This “Cascadia” stuff would probably not even be purely socialist, and probably not even secessionist because nobody actually wants to die in a civil war over this shit. What it is is a thought experiment to introduce [certain, current] liberals to thinking outside the framework offered by liberal ideology. Among socialists who don’t need that, it’s just a bit.
• Following that “Actual socialism” will arise in the global south, especially as the influence of the US empire starts to fade. What better way to speed that up than to add tension between our region and Washington D.C.? The more crap they need to deal with domestically, the less ability they will have to fuck with movements that have the opportunity to get things done. I think that the character of a “Cascadian” movement probably would be social-democratic. Hopefully genuine socialists would have a foothold in that. Hopefully those socialists would be poised to develop a more communist society that we are all striving for, but the weakening of the US is a prerequisite to that in this location, is it not?

That was going to be “just a few things” but I think I’m going to leave it at that for the moment. I hope that clarifies what this is and is not meant to represent. You aren’t really wrong that a “Cascadia movement” will probably not actually be socialist. We agree that the work would not be done if it existed. My point is that the material conditions of my corner of the world only allow for that level of progress at this time, but it would be progress that could be built on late in our lifetimes, or by the next generation (who would be less America-brained).

Frankly, this has all been addressed in previous posts from this account, including the (now defunct) ties to white nationalism, and the wimpy liberalism the “movement” (which isn’t real) represents in the modern day. It has been discussed how the concept of “Cascadia” is, in fact, a useful rhetorical tool in the current moment, to pipeline progressive liberals into discussions that don’t center around United States politics (with a layer of irony applied).

It’s fine if you didn’t read those posts, but this disingenuous and bad-faith approach to the discussion is incredibly uncomradely and offensive. I suggest that you offer people, especially with an @hexbear account, an opportunity to address concerns you may have in the future, instead of making assumptions. You don’t have to agree with the conclusions, but I think you’ll find very little that’s incompatible with the Hexbear consensus.

Edit: link for your convenience, the NTI is addressed at the bottom of the post. You don’t have to agree with it. https://hexbear.net/comment/5576727

If they’re going to talk like it, they need to act like it.

It’s already done

deleted by creator

Weird thing to depend on in the fascist US. Your average progressive liberal didn’t even like Biden (if they did genuinely like him, that person is not the subject of this post). They are getting the message, but repeating liberal tropes and now is the time to interrupt that cycle of waiting to take leadership from the Democrats that will never arrive.

I’m talking about misguided “progressives” not a through and through establishment twitter ghoul.

Many of them are on the brink but they need to be given license to reject the institutions.

You can look at the other posts on this account , but basically the time is now for progressive liberals to get serious and see the US for what it is, and stop acting like there is something about the US government that’s worth preserving.

It does not need to be a hardline “let’s secede” kinda thing, cause we will fucking lose a civil war or whatever would happen next. It’s more of a thought experiment/starting point/attitude. Going all in is gonna get us all shot, but if we know the US government is against our interests (as the working class, but also as progressive-thinking people). What does it look like to do 70% of a secession and maybe not kick off a war (preferable, once we get there, we can figure out what the next move is)?

Is 70% of a secession still too much? What does 30% look like? At least we are headed in the right direction of protecting our vulnerable populations instead of waiting on some Democrat to give us an indication…

We know Democrats aren’t getting the job done, and one major reason is that they care about “America” and shit, but not our state (this especially resonates with people who have lived in our region before 2005 or so). Our city council does a land acknowledgement every week before their meeting, so if you care about “stolen land” and making our Indian comrades whole again, then what give the US a seat at the table in the first place? Average liberals love talking about the slavery, colonization, genocide, racism, white supremacy, neo-imeprialism, and war that the US is woven from, so once again, why are you [they] so attached to it?

Core is Van, Seattle, and Portland down to Eugene. Further south or east is debatable, and starts to overlap with “greater Idaho”, “state of Jefferson”, or “calexit” California.

The “independence movement” is pretty lightweight and lib-flavored as it currently exists. People here know about it though, or at least have seen the “Doug flag” (avatar for this account) at soccer game or bar around town.

It is pre-marketed, and it is less difficult to backdoor a progressive liberal into a conversation about “socialism with Cascadian characteristics” than it is to beg and plead them to join the “spooky communist” PSL (these MFs are off-put by the DSA like half the time).

The more serious stuff can come later, but it is absolutely necessary to demolish the idea that anything good will happen at the federal and recognize that liberalism is a dead ideology when it comes to resusting the fascist elements of the Republican party. This has been clearly demonstrated for 12 years. Liberals: how long until you fucking do something that isn’t in the MSNBC news cycle?

On the West Coast there a many progressive liberals (not all) who are ready to hear:

the United States is a black hole for anything even mildly progressive. You can NOT ‘survive the next 4 years’ until Meatball Ron takes over as POTUS. You must act NOW to start protecting our state/region from the fascist United States. Does that mean we build social democracy in our region alone? Do we secede? Do we join Canada? Let’s discuss, I don’t know the answer, but at least now we are talking about shit that matters…

You have the right idea, the “Cascadia” bit is a shortcut to actual progressive discussions about what it may actually take to make good things happen. We’re doing it right now, even. It’s not meant to be totally serious (unless it actually becomes a thing, but by then it’s way out of our hands anyway).

Proto Cascadian identity (while working toward “socialism with Cascadian Characteristics”) will need to be formed as an extension of indigenous liberation. Half the liberals already can see the farce of land acknowledgments that they do at every city council meeting, but this is what it might look like to see real action. It forms a path to anti-colonialism since even land acknowledgements directly call it occupied land.

Progressive liberals are vulnerable to having their American identity crushed, which is accelerating every day under Trump 2.0. “Socialism with Cascadian characteristics” is a just a bit (or thought experiment), but it takes advantage of what is happening right now and gets them out of the liberal dead-end quickly. There needs to be so we fucking urgency if we are going to protect our communities from fascism and we know we can’t wait 4 more fucking years and then watch Democrats tank to a Vance/DeSantis ticket. Either liberals talk me down or they don’t actually hate this shit and they’re pretenders (a lot of them irl are down to engage though, they’re on their way).

To respond to the first part of your post; It’s more of a talking point to get the liberals away from thinking that discussing Trump’s garbage of the day and the :vote: ing in 2028 is somehow effective at anything. I don’t actually want a civil insurrection, the US government would win with support of the chuds.

However, having this discussion among comrades, and even with liberals (the ones who genuinely want progressive changes) gets things moving in the right direction since it isolates the US federal government and the Democratic Party. If we are going to play at the state level, then both of those entities are going to stand in the way of achieving our goals. Does that make sense?

I will also mention that these topics are complex and honestly difficult for me to organize my thoughts here in a place that is “friendly” like Hexbear. Thanks for responding, and whether the discussion happens here or irl, agree or disagree, I hope as comrades “iron sharpens iron” and we will both come away with a more developed understanding of the age old “what is to be done?”.

For discussion purposes though, I’ll respond to your question: as socialists we understand that the ownership class will not give way to the workers peacefully. I don’t wish to go to war. I hope to avert it. At the same time we do need to discuss this head on (as you are with your question). We need to understand that an violent incursion would be a suicide mission and it would be to our benefit to tip the scales until it’s not an absolute blowout.

Another angle: building media and political infrastructure that will reach out to these people and bring them somewhere into the fold (anyone who is not actually part of the ownership class). We saw from the Bernie campaigns how actually doing politics can engage significant numbers of people from unexpected places. On the west coast we have the upper hand over racist/transphobic culture (kinda sorta, big asterisk, let’s not tangent quite yet). The movement (or party apparatus thereof) can not allow these people to be brought up to leadership positions (unless they demonstrate that they’ve shed those anti-worker, anti-equiality convictions). They can still be made useful at the fringe , and our movement can be poised with open arms (at the fringe) for people who realize that US led capitalism is doomed to fail. We know that capitalism will be unable to survive its own contradictions, so it becomes a bit of a waiting game when it comes to these folks, but we aren’t fucking Democrats so we will have rural outreach programs etc…

There will be true and through fashys out there, but I think it’s very fring, any they’ll find their way over to “greater Idaho” and stfu or something, most likely.

Yeah let’s stop sitting on our asses and work on that.

Cascadia supports the liberation of our Puerto Rican, Alaskan, and Hawaiian comrades from the genocidal United States empire.

On the West Coast we will need to do what it takes to figure for our rights taken and withheld from us by the genocidal and regressive United States empire.

Comrades elsewhere in the lower United States, I’m not sure what options you have but we welcome you to come west and right with us for a better future. Our geographic isolation offers us this advantage.

Its difficult because there are many people who are transplants in our major cities cause they don’t want to live in chudsville or wherever. They still have family in those places. The short answer is that as much as I would love to solve Ohio and Alabama’s problems, I would also like to solve the problems of my Kenyan and Indian and Honduran comrades. I have no effective political or economic power on these places. I do have a smidge of influence in my local community so that’s what I’m able to look out for.

I could go on but I’ll pause here.

It’s like 65% a bit so don’t bother ;)

For us on the west coast we can appropriate “calexit” or “Cascadia” as progressive propaganda, but I can’t speak for socialists elsewhere in the United States. Different material (geographic) conditions may make the “balkanize the US” tactic unpalatable.

If you happen to live in the so-called “Pacific Northwest” region of the United States, you can have them DM this account for answers.