All of your premises are detailed extrapolations where immortality goes wrong and doesn’t actually argue against the core issue: I simply do not want to die. I never will.

Its not that I want to live because life is wonderful. I want to never have to face the horror of impending future non-existence.

Like, I could go into some of my specific counter points to your premises. The people I care about extends beyond to people I do not know and it extends even to people I do not even like. And that I’d happily accept never having children be born anymore. That obviously the heat death would need to be somehow mitigated, etc. but this is just arguing over pointless detail.

These details don’t fundamentally matter. I do not want to die.

How do you reach that conclusion? We’re all just bits of matter, assembled in various shapes and configurations.

Because… inert matter doesn’t make decisions…

How are you evaluating happiness absent existence? Hell, how are you evaluating happiness, period?

As long as you accept the premise that some people are happy and some people are unhappy, I don’t think measuring it for precision matters.

Are you arguing a given child would be better off inert? Are blindness, deafness, and paralysis virtues?

They wouldn’t be a child if they were never born to begin with.

I wasn’t taking the “living as a hermit” as a good faith suggestion. We’re you actually serious? Because that’s “If you are unhappy with human existence, go live a worse life than you are already living.” My answer is no.

My issue isn’t even just that “We live in a society” (lol), my issue is that society produced my existence and expects me to accept it as my problem.

My issue with free will is that its a gibberish concept that fundamentally makes no sense. Not that its “free will” vs “pre-destination”

My definition of “no free will” is that our “will” is based in physical reality, which is primarily made up of highly predictable phenomena, with a extremely and laughably tiny influence from quantum mechanics, which is metaphorically random dice rolls anyway so it doesn’t matter.

A better way to look at my stance though is more to ask yourself, “What is your will actually free from?” If you think there is a metaphysical aspect to our will even then that implies that our will is then determined via the metaphysical and still isn’t really free.

That said, it kind of ties together with the whole “can’t choose to be born” issue, because its impossible to choose to even exist or in what environmental context and with what physical body you were born into you can’t reasonably say we ever make any true decisions. Our existence stems from a domino effect starting at the big bang (or maybe something before that)

I’m introverted, I liked them immediately.

I’ve not read any of his work but I am aware of him. I suspect that I’d likely agree with him on a lot. But I’ve also read that reading his work would probably make me even more depressed about being born.

Well, I should have said this earlier.

Another complicating factor is that, I do not believe in free will.

So even though that technically means I can reject your choice based morality as well. I’ll concede that it also contradicts my negative emotional feelings towards all parents and my feelings of injustice stemming from natalism and pro-birth being rational. Since… you know, they can’t exactly meaningfully choose to be parents because choice is an illusion.

I’m still angry and depressed though.

My parents treated me mostly fine, though I’m fairly certain with my father it was fairly conditional, I was just careful to not get on his bad side. Now not so much.

Even with acceptable or even good parents, I still find everything to be fairly existentially unpleasant. I resent being born.

That said, despite that I still love my mom. Shes a good person despite having given birth to me.

You already know what this is like.

No I don’t. I did not exist. Let me repeat: time flows in one direction. Had I never existed, I’d not ahve to one day face oblivion. I resent being brought into a finite pointless existence.

The alternate to eventually dying someday is living forever. When you think about what infinite life would truly be like, that is MUCH closer to any definition of hell I’ve ever heard of. I’m happy to go into multiple theoretical scenarios of this, each more horrific than the next. Those that say they want to live forever lack imagination. Death isn’t something to fear. At the end of a long life, it is a gift.

Eventual death of myself and everyone I know and love renders every act extremely pointless. If living forever would be hell, then it is even worse that I have been born because there isn’t even a theoretical outcome to my existence that would not be existentially awful.

That said, obviously if I were to live forever, I’d want everyone I care about to live forever. And I’d want our existence to be one of contentment and enjoyment. This would still be worse than never having existed, but its the next best thing.

Its not merely an “opinion”, its nearly a universally held moral axiomatic fact that doing something to someone without their consent is, by default, wrong. Maybe you disagree, but most people do not. They usually just don’t do any moral analysis to authentically reach the conclusion that birth itself is a moral injustice to the newly born. Because most people are willfully ignorant if the truth is uncomfortable.

I do stuff for me and people I care about, but I still resent even the expectation that I owe anyone anything, that I was born to inevitably one day die, and that I, having not choose to be here need to just “suck it up” as an adult and be a productive part of a natalist society I largely deem responsible for the grave injustice of anyone’s birth.

I could kill myself and be in the right. I wont do that because death is a lovecraftian horror to me, but I could.

That said, alternatively, if I could indeed live forever I’d feel a little less disgusted with existence. At least I wouldn’t have to face my mortality.

They aren’t nearly as motivated to go as fast as I am, and they can only bag one person at a time and have lines, while usually there are 4-6 machines wide open for me to jump onto immediately.

I fucking hate going to the grocery store though.

EDIT: also lonely old people will stop and chit chat sometimes slowing shit even more.

My hatred for this person is a thousand burning suns.

deleted by creator

I feel nothing but revulsion and disgust for the person who made this comic.

It places its sympathy towards parents, which is nonsense. They’re the ones who choose to bring the child into existence in the first place. They should fucking bear the guilt and try and make up for it as best as they can.

If we’re going to entertain non-existent people who don’t want to exist, we are obligated to consider non-existent people who do want to exist.

People who are happy to be alive does not “pay” for bringing someone unhappy into existence. In fact if you really think that you can justify all sorts of morally reprehensible things.

But that isn’t precisely my point.

Let me repeat: No one consents to being born. You cannot ask someone ahead of time if they’d like to be born. Any person born owes absolutely nothing to their parents and almost nothing to everyone else other than basic respect. Until of course they themselves give birth, and then they owe an infinite and unpayable debt to their children.

Even if your child is perfectly content being alive throughout their life, they did not choose to be here. You brought them here and thus you still owe them a debt.

Not the guy you were talking to but:

Just because I wish was was not born does not intrinsically mean I wish I was dead. Death is a lovecraftian horror to me, now that I exist. I cannot fathom not existing and the idea that eventually I will be dead terrifies me.

And in fact, my mortality is a major reason I resent having been born (not the only one). If I never was, I’d not have to face one day not being.

Being born is a pandora’s box. Time flows in only one direction, so that I did not exist before brings me no comfort in the face of someday not existing once again.

The fucked up thing my parents did was have children.

I still love my mom despite that because in basically every other way shes a good person. But it was still fucked up of her.

There are other things you can do other than mindlessly grind for wealth or drag another non-consenting consciousness or two into existence.

Not my experience.

Like, I agree with the tit for tat. But don’t let your cat outside.

Trans people seem to have a knack for hating men huh.

I’m not trans. I’m a cis male. (edit: well, mostly. TBH on a higher rational level I might as well be genderless, I’m a cis male by convenience)

Go on, try it there’ll be no tolerance for people who advocate for this levels of evil

Evil? I’m suggesting such not to punish males. Its to minimize loneliness and sadness in the world.