If you start with the assumption that humans have a soul, and reject the notion that machines are the same for that reason then yea what is there to discuss?
I can’t disprove your faith. That’s what faith is.
How would you respond to someone that thought humanoid robots had souls, but meat-based intelligence didn’t? If they assumed the first, and had zero metric for how you would ever prove the second, then theyd be giving you an impossible task.
There’s a point to a discussion when both sides agree on a rubric from determining fact from fiction (i.e. rooting it in empiricism) but there’s no point when someone is dug in on their belief with zero method for ever changing it.
If someone could point to any actual observable difference, I will adapt my beliefs to the evidence. The reverse isn’t possible, because you are starting with religious assumptions, and have don’ know the difference between ideas with no rooting in physical reality and actual statements about material conditions.
I’m a materialist, and I got that way through Marxist texts not the “new atheists”.
Fine, if you were using it that way, let’s look at that aspect.
The “unknown” of human consciousness is entirely a product of people refusing to define what they mean by the word.
You can find many definitions for consciousness, but the second you stop being vague and actually get concrete about what you mean when you use that word the mystery goes away.
AI can match the definition of consciousness, but when people switch definitions multiple times or refuse to give one from the outset it will be impossible to show AI meeting it.
Actually pick one definition, don’t try and worm your way out of that definition or blame me because you forgot to add a part, and yes there’s going to be examples of machines with consciousness.
How this usually works is people make excuses, like “it’s hard to articulate” so that they never get to that point. Then they can stay feeling special, and no one can ever change their beliefs about it.
If you start with the assumption that humans have a soul, and reject the notion that machines are the same for that reason then yea what is there to discuss?
I can’t disprove your faith. That’s what faith is.
How would you respond to someone that thought humanoid robots had souls, but meat-based intelligence didn’t? If they assumed the first, and had zero metric for how you would ever prove the second, then theyd be giving you an impossible task.
There’s a point to a discussion when both sides agree on a rubric from determining fact from fiction (i.e. rooting it in empiricism) but there’s no point when someone is dug in on their belief with zero method for ever changing it.
If someone could point to any actual observable difference, I will adapt my beliefs to the evidence. The reverse isn’t possible, because you are starting with religious assumptions, and have don’ know the difference between ideas with no rooting in physical reality and actual statements about material conditions.
I used the word soul once as a shorthand for the unknown of human consciousness. Either stop being an insufferable Reddit new atheist or fuck off.
I’m a materialist, and I got that way through Marxist texts not the “new atheists”.
Fine, if you were using it that way, let’s look at that aspect.
The “unknown” of human consciousness is entirely a product of people refusing to define what they mean by the word.
You can find many definitions for consciousness, but the second you stop being vague and actually get concrete about what you mean when you use that word the mystery goes away.
AI can match the definition of consciousness, but when people switch definitions multiple times or refuse to give one from the outset it will be impossible to show AI meeting it.
Actually pick one definition, don’t try and worm your way out of that definition or blame me because you forgot to add a part, and yes there’s going to be examples of machines with consciousness.
How this usually works is people make excuses, like “it’s hard to articulate” so that they never get to that point. Then they can stay feeling special, and no one can ever change their beliefs about it.
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