Context: I was a Boy Scout for a number of years, making Eagle in 2020 right as COVID was really kicking off.
It was right afterwards, however, that the CSA scandal started popping up everywhere (which thankfully I was never exposed to or involved in during my time), and lately it seems like the organization & movement as a whole has fallen by the sociocultural wayside.
I would say that my time as a Scout did me objective good; I learned a decent amount about first-aid & survival-craft, participated in a number of volunteer & civic projects, and it generally made me a more well-rounded person. However, there’s no denying the impact that something “bigger than the Catholic Church scandal”, as I’ve heard it described, has on an institution such as this.
I’d like to get the community’s opinion, however; were any of you Scouts? How was your experience? What is your opinion of the institution today?
I think like a lot of things in life there are good troops and bad troops. I was lucky enough to be in two really great troops and are still friends with most of them even today almost 15 years later.
I was a scout, I made it to life then stopped going to church around 15. Even though it was largely connected to church, I remember it fondly. Scout is some of my best memories.
I think it’s a shame that they have fallen, however, I understand why it has.
Same, I was a couple badges and my project shy of Eagle when I finally threw in the towel. Order of the Arrow was great, we got to do tons of fun stuff. As an electrician, i still use some of the knots i learned to pull wire, among other things.
BSA had a reputation for having a pedophile problem back in the 90s as I recall, though. Im sure it went back farther.
I wasn’t tapped for the order of the arrow. My brother was though. He got this really cool wooden arrow.
I was tapped, but then my scoutmaster stopped me and said “not you” and then his son went. He was a cunt and only helped his sons. I’m glad I broke his ribs when we played touch football later.
That’s bullcrap, it must have hurt your feelings. I was sent home from Tomahawk Scout Camp because I was smoking cigarettes. It really affected me to be sent home, it was humiliating. I understand now that I shouldn’t have been smoking there. My addiction was too strong at that time.
It absolutely did. It wasn’t the first or last time he was an asshole to me though. He was just shitty all around. Once his cheating wife divorced him he chilled out. Figure that either knocked the stuffing out of him or unloaded a mountain of stress. But it was too little too late. I attribute my dislike of camping to him. He always made it boring and pointless.
That sucks you got booted from Tomahawk camp though man. That would be embarrassing to me too. Did you make Eagle? I barely did.
I only made it to life.
I almost stayed there. Took some kind people outside of the scoutmaster moving things along to get me there because he wouldn’t. I almost aged out.
I’m have three kids in scouting and I’m an ASM myself. I find it’s very dependant on the troop. I didn’t have a very good experience as a kid with mine, so I didn’t think I’d bring my kids into it. But when they were interested, we found a troop that turned out to be everything mine wasn’t as a kid. We accepted girls before it was officially allowed, and we’ve built a very strong, open and positive community. Enough that when they asked me to become an ASM, I happily accepted since my opinion of scouts had completely turned around.
There are still some pockets of the old guard that don’t like the direction of scouting these days. But with a good troop, it can be an amazing experience. My kids have grown and learned so much from their involvement. Me too.
I learned a lot in scouts, but I wasn’t comfortable with the nationalism, pseudo military and Christian overtones.
I just went camping instead.
FWIW, I found that scouting mostly stayed out of religion. There are badges for each religion that you’re encouraged to pursue with your parents and religious leaders so I took it as more encouraging you to follow whatever you believe.
Granted they assume you have a religion
If it makes you feel any better, the Evangelicals had their own version (think of like Christian music but for boy scouts) that explicitly intertwined religion and nationalism into it. Was straight up child indoctrination.
I’m not sure why that would make you feel better lol. That said, I wasn’t molested, and I actually did learn quite a bit about survival etc. and a lot it has stuck with me. So it could have been worse.
What I encountered were a lot of boys with absent fathers. But we did help out elderly people with shopping and a holiday kitchen. But the same groups that make free holiday meals support politicians who want to fuck the poor the other 364 days.
I was a kid asking, “but what about all the other meals these people need?”.
Was one of the only organizations I knew of that was kid-run, with kids deciding what to do and how to do it. Great to get away from parents and go out camping once a month.
my friends were Scouts but I was always too poor and my homelife was too unpredictable to be in any kind of organization with the kind of commitment requirements that Scouts required.
My friends in the early 90s that were in Scouts had a Scout Master that they all considered to be a creepy pedo. So its not anything new. Anytime there is young people and adults without proper supervision, this is bound to happen.
The priest that baptized me was a pedo and to make it even worse, he was moved away from a chruch when it came to light that he was molesting children
AND THEY MOVED HIM TO MY CHURCH. WHICH WAS ALSO A GRADE SCHOOL / JUNIOR HIGH
Let that sink in.
Right around the time that he “retired” one of my schoolmates just disappeared from school too. I have always wondered if that was connected.
Yeah, I don’t go to Mass anymore. I don’t do church anymore.
I know it’s too late for you but for anyone else …. At least in the packs/troops I was involved with, they freely offered waiving fees and dues for kids where the money was a hardship. Money should not be an obstacle
We have enough sinks already thanks!
Nah but in all seriousness, did no one try to oust that person? That’s so messed up!
My son has been in Cub Scouts for a few years and I help lead the pack. It’s been good for him and his friends, but fuck nationals. If our local pack agreed with the national organization’s right-wing politics and religious mandate I wouldn’t feel comfortable with it. But we make it pretty clear to the parents that we just ignore the rules that we think are not in line with our values.
I don’t love being part of an org with values that contradict ours, but if we abandon every problematic organization it will be very hard to find things to be a part of. And we can discuss with the kids the things that we don’t agree with, and also work from within the organization to improve it. If nationals ever came down on us we would probably just join one of the other scouting organizations that doesn’t hold right-wing views. And if the rest of the pack leader is caved to nationals I would pull my son out of the program.
Cub Scouts has a reasonably good education program for keeping kids safe from abuse, and it’s a requirement each year for parents to discuss these things with their kids. So most of the conversations I’ve had with my son about abuse has been because the Cub Scouts require it. In that sense, I feel like it has prepared him somewhat to get himself out of a bad situation if he ever find himself in one.
We’ll see if he wants to continue at the troop level. I will support him if he wants to, and the conversations we’ve had due to Cub Scouts make it less likely that anything abusive will happen while he’s camping with them.
It seems good for people. Most people I’ve known who did it seem glad they did.
It’s one of those things where I wish the governing body was more separate from the concept, and I feel for people who dedicated a great deal of time to a positive force in their life yet have to grapple with what the institution itself is.
When i was a kid, i was so enthused by the idea of scouting. When i finally joined up i realized quick it was all a front to recruit kids to the church and I got out of there as fast as I could. I have hated the scouts ever since
Is that something universal for the BSA, or only for parts of it? I would believe, that troops with evangelical depencency would be very strict on religion. Others might differ, though I don’t know much about the BSA in total.
I hadn’t even considered that angle when I was looking for a cub scout troop for my son a few years ago. I was fortunate enough to be a part of BSA when my dad was stationed in Germany so we were essentially sponsored by the base and there was no connection to a church organization. In the US I am finding that all troops are associated with churches and since I (as an atheist) am raising my son to be a free-thinker I figured there would be friction at some point since we don’t go to church. I was honestly less concerned about gropey scout-masters since I intended to be with him on each trip and am handy with a hatchet.
IMO and in hindsight, there is also a level of over-the-top christo-patriotism that I basically overlooked when I was younger that makes me want to cringe now as an adult. These factors have been enough for me to take a more informal route to teach him outdoorsman-ship via campouts at state parks since I can’t find any secular scouting options in my area. Its a shame since I did have some great experiences in scouting but I can’t give him anything like the opportunities I had as a military brat in Europe.
I’m a fellow Eagle scout and I have an intrinsic bias toward other scouts that have completed their Eagle. It shows me that they hold values consistent or similar to my own. Namely the scout law and oath. Scouting taught me a deep emotional connection to nature and the way I interact with it. As with any organization, there’s going to be failures and tribulations, but I treat BSA guidelines as I do Catholic morality. It is what I make of it and if I take the core values that are meant to be gleaned from what it’s supposed to teach, then it’s difficult to argue that it’s had a negative impact on me or the people around me.
I would love to see a scouting Renaissance in the next few decades with the inclusion of women and queer members. There’s few other organizations or programs that are as well equipped to teach youth about nature and what it has to offer.
I managed to get my Eagle scout badge right before I aged out so I can appreciate what I think you are saying. As a parent, I initially planned on getting my son into scouting but the mess with BSA was enough to keep us away. That said, I still try to embody many of the values that I learned as a scout like always being prepared and respectful and ethical behavior.
What I think we could use more of is something like the Baden-Power Scouting Association or Navigators USA since they appear to be much more inclusive but I wasn’t able to find a chapter in my area.
Life scout here. Wouldn’t trade it for the world. It was a huge positive force on my childhood and created lifelong friendships.
It’s an essential part of any battle. You need to get an idea of enemy numbers and movements before you formulate a strategy.
Also how else are you going to pick players for the majors if they don’t go out to the lower leagues.
Not just battle it’s also essential for just general safe travel in null- or lowsec space.
How else would you know which talent to hire
I was a Boy Scout some years ago. I think as a programme to get young boys interested in outdoor activities it worked pretty well. As for the paedophilia scandals, I think they were intrinsic to how the group is organised. Their decentralised model that relies on volunteer scoutmasters is very prone to infiltration by people who have no business being around children and difficult to police because they can’t actually supervise each individual troop but are still legally responsible for them.
I also think they sort of lost the plot with their whole transgender nonsense and their pivot to the “Scouting America” brand. Their exclusion of transgender boys and heavy emphasis on religion indicated a severe failure to get with the times. Transitioning from the Boy Scouts of America to “Scouting America” is giving up on their core model of being an organisation that serves primarily boys.
Don’t take this in a bigoted way, I’m saying this not because I think gender segregation is good, but their core customer base (if you want to call it that) is teenage boys, and there’s an allure to that demographic in being a part of an organisation that is designed to serve boys, seeing that the Girl Scouts are also a thing. The Boy Scouts have a strong anti-radicalising effect because they teach boys to be accepting of others with differences and to be open minded and learn from them. And girls sorta know that Scouting America isn’t really for them, seeing that 80% of its membership consists of boys and the membership of the Girl Scouts USA (which is practically 100% girls) outnumber the female members of the BSA 5 to 1. So what’s left is an organisation which boys think isn’t for them, and girls also think isn’t for them. So who’s it for, really?
I can’t go this long without acknowledging that for every failure of the former Boy Scouts of America, there is a corresponding success of the Girl Scouts USA. The Girl Scouts is far more secular as an organisation to begin with, and they are also more progressive in that they accepted transgender girls over half a decade earlier than the Boy Scouts, who pretty much had to be dragged kicking into the 21st century. I remember in my Boy Scout handbook a line which said, roughly, that “the BSA is a secular organisation, meaning we don’t tell you how to worship, however, we believe boys cannot be their best selves without finding their connection with God.” And even 13-year-old me knew that was a load of doublespeak rubbish. The BSA was a deeply religious organisation. Boy Scout events had organised prayers and they said grace before every meal at the camps. There is a difference between acknowledging the religion of what may be a majority of your participants, and trying to nudge the remainder into it, and I think the BSA fell on the wrong side of that line.
So while I think the BSA was an imperfect organisation, I still think it’s a shame to see its decline.
Boy scouts need to find something better to sell than popcorn to match the girl scout cookies.
What should they sell?
Idk crackers? Chips? Snack foods are a good idea, but popcorn feels too limiting compared to cookies.
Especially when the last 3 years the popcorn we’ve had to sell has gone bad.
I’m a former scout and current adult leader in BSA. It isn’t for everyone, but for the kids who click with the program I have seen it be a very positive activity in their lives. Individual experiences can vary greatly depending on the immediate peer group and the environment set by the adult leaders.
I am very glad that BSA has opened up to girls and LGBTQ+ members, and watered down the religious aspects. The organization is late to change but moving in the right direction. I also appreciate the current focus on youth safety and abuse prevention, though like the Catholic church it’s unfortunately too little too late for a whole lot of past victims.
it seems like the organization & movement as a whole has fallen by the sociocultural wayside.
Scouting in the US has been in decline since the 1970s. It didn’t help that they kept trying to cling to tradition and conservative values as the world evolved around them. The BSA particularly looked like assholes in Boy Scouts of America v. Dale in 2000. Then the BSA’s sex abuse cases started blowing up around 2015-ish. Then the LDS church closed all their scouting units in 2019, cutting the remaining BSA membership in half. It’s been a rough couple of decades.
