And i fully agree, the world would be better off without all the religious doctrines. Not just the abrahamic ones.
What i disagree with is that having any form private religious contemplations means you are immediately part of a death cult and a horrible person.
Same like not being a vegetarian doesn’t mean you hate all animals.
Getting fulfilment from your job doesn’t mean you agree with capitalism.
Life has nuance, so do personal experiences. Not all forms of religions even require you to have literal believes.But some people want to act like their is no alternative then religious zealot and
Anti-religious zealot.
There is a huge moment of post religion out there that is helping humans get out of superstition. Atheism is one form of that, but not the only one. Grouping them all together as just as bad as the religious abusers is simply not right.
No doubt painting it all with one brush is reductionist, there are good people in all corners of the world. What I would say is, even the genuinely good actors practicing these faiths are all acting as cover for the monsters, whether they want to or not. The most devout people should rather denounce their faith as to not enable the evil that gets perpetrated in their name.
Of course that won’t happen, but I don’t know how else we can reconcile with the idea that these faiths are far, far, far, more destructive than productive, just accounting for the few vile wolves in sheep’s clothing that are actively working towards the destruction of this planet despite the rest of us.
Why would someone who already denounces the church and the evils of institutional religion. But happens to have private contemplations of a spiritual nature, Denounce that personal experience also? Especially if it is their private experience that makes them understand how evil the church is?
(This does not describe me but does describe multiple people who consider themselves religious that i know)
Why would someone who already denounces the church and the evils of institutional religion. But happens to have private contemplations of a spiritual nature, Denounce that personal experience also?
Because it’s more honest, and the closer we get to the truth, the more lives we can save.
Nothing is “spiritual”. Reframe the experience in reality. I promise you can keep all the benefits, just get rid of the needless risk.
So long as your flaws are your problems, you choose to live worse for some reason. But it is not just religion, but any kind of magical thinking. Like when someone refuses psych medicine because they believe they are special, and can overpower the disease with willpower.
You put people at risk willingly by making irrational choices, just because they are convenient.
Having said that, I have little issue with Cristian atheism, as it’s not an actual religion, but an ideology.
For the majority of people that identify as religious, it is just a philosophy/ideology.
That why i take a stand when people shout that “everyone who identifies as religious is part of a death cult”
I am fortunate not to live in an area where zealots are a majority. I only know a single person who actually believes in anything magical (angels) and she does not think that they can intervent in everyday life.
I do know plenty of people who still identify as religious. My Christian teacher who explained me that the bible is just some old book not to take literal.
Even the priests who baptised my son (atheist parents baptising their kids is very common where i live) does not personify god as a separate Devine entity and the one time i heard him preach it was more pro socialism and warning for social isolation by new technology then anything magical.
That is concerning, given that the actual religious folk’s religion is based on an anectodal book, that means they can twist it to whatever suits them.
Like the prospherity gosspel. It is so easy to influence people.
I mean, that’s what MAGA is doing, treating their own religion book as “communist propaganda”.
There are similar branches in other religions, some have even be older then Roman Catholicism itself.
When statistically more than half of people who identify as Christian proclaim that experience is entirely personal. I am inclined to belief they are a part of this. All the religious people i know treat the bible just like any other historical book on traditional philosophy. They don’t go to church (outside special occasions), they aren’t followers of anyone but themselves. They are still considered Christians by themselves and those around them.
The pure definition of “Christianity” in a modern context seems to be nothing more then “having doubts that death will be the end of your conscious experience + some abstract feeling of the universe being an everlasting singularity”
Whether people do good or bad, is entirely up to the people.
To compare with communism. I very much oppose the ussr and ccpr, but that doesn’t mean das kapital by marx is a source of evil.
What the bible says doesn’t matter to religious people who don’t follow that bible.
I think it’s because of your protestant cult upbringing, where the pastor’s bible was absolute truth. That’s a particularly conservative strand, one that denies the Vatican any interpretive authority. Its official role is to interpret a closed revelation, one that supposedly ended when the last apostle died, not to speak as God. Not a defence, just factual information.
I’ve told you before that I’ve read about 3 different bibles. Both the catholic school I went to and my atheist parents considered all of them bibles. But to the extremists you’re talking about, all 3 would be condemned as heretical socialist texts that aren’t the bible at all.
A minority doesn’t get to describe a majority. If we allow that, we lose what we stand for, because people who are malicious will always twist it to evil.
On your nazi argument, compare it with communism. The USSR and the CCP both claim to be socialist and both murder any countering voices. The truth is they aren’t communist, because they have a political class separate from the people.
Fascists have always done this. Embrace, extend, extinguish. With Christianity it started with the Romans, who took three centuries of history that had held no centralised or institutional power and narrowed it down. what was left was the version where the afterlife is a threat you hold over people. This is what most resembles “a death cult”, an institutional invention and not the original philosophy.
It’s one of the reasons I got interested in the non-roman branches that warned against scripture, though those have been coopted by evil figures plenty of times too.
The roman cult, and especially the protestant branches, have done an insane amount of harm to people over the years. Yet the original philosophies survived all of it, and in a modern context, mostly in Europe, they’ve turned into the non theological and personal forms of Christianity that exist today.
It’s still called Christianity because the original stories use Jesus as the character who is the example of good. A bit like a mask in Greek theatre that tells you what the character stands for.
A lot of the good ideas are still there, not just in bible interpretations but in how people actually experience morality. Helping those in need, showing compassion without judgement, finding some personal peace in a chaotic world. None of that needs an afterlife to work, which is sort of the point.
I prefer “spiritual” myself, but I can’t fault people who are surrounded by likeminded rational people who all call themselves Christians for labelling the extremist an outsider and the church old fashioned.
What really made the difference is that people can now compare translations and read the different materials themselves instead of getting one interpretation from one source.
A majority of christians believe the bible, for fuck’s sake. Stop pretending my situation is some kind of fluke. Stop running cover for literal death cultists, abusers. Stop choosing death.
Three-quarters of Christians say they believe the Bible is the word of God.
While about four-in-ten Christians (39%) say the Bible’s text is the word of God and should be taken literally, 36% say it should not be interpreted literally or express another or no opinion. A separate 18% of Christians view the Bible as a book written by men, not God.
They hide their stupid beliefs or they take the cowardly approach of trying to leave every possibility open instead of having consistent values.
In 2014, about four-in-ten Christians (42%) said reading the Bible or other religious materials is an essential part of what being Christian means to them personally. An additional 37% say reading the Bible is important but not essential to being a Christian, and 21% say reading the Bible is not an important part of their Christian identity.
So 79% think reading the bible is important. The bible is hate speech. Please stop defending it and the people who consult it for guidance.
The USSR and the CCP both claim to be socialist and both murder any countering voices. The truth is they aren’t communist, because they have a political class separate from the people.
And you can see through their bullshit because of the evidence. Why can’t you do that for christianity? How many tales of parents abusing their children per the bible’s explicit instructions do you need to hear before you acknowledge it is a problem? Fuck you for throwing my life away, selfish coward.
what was left was the version where the afterlife is a threat you hold over people.
Again, HAVE YOU READ THE BIBLE? It has been a death cult since Genesis. Yahweh is an authoritarian death god. Christ is yahweh. Christianity is fascist.
It’s still called Christianity because the original stories use Jesus as the character who is the example of good.
This is the problem. Jesus is not good. It is not loving to demand complete submission under threat of eternal punishment. It is not loving to tell deadly lies.
I prefer “spiritual” myself
How selfish. Try using your brain. Magic isn’t real. Souls and spirits are not real.
What really made the difference is that people can now compare translations and read the different materials themselves instead of getting one interpretation from one source.
In every translation, in every version, it’s a fucking death cult.
Fuck you for choosing willful ignorance. Fuck you for choosing death for innocent people. The blood on your hands will never come off. The least you could do is stop fucking killing.
Nah man, the planet would be really better off without the Abrahamic religions, if you don’t think so, you’re not paying attention
And i fully agree, the world would be better off without all the religious doctrines. Not just the abrahamic ones.
What i disagree with is that having any form private religious contemplations means you are immediately part of a death cult and a horrible person.
Same like not being a vegetarian doesn’t mean you hate all animals.
Getting fulfilment from your job doesn’t mean you agree with capitalism.
Life has nuance, so do personal experiences. Not all forms of religions even require you to have literal believes.But some people want to act like their is no alternative then religious zealot and Anti-religious zealot.
There is a huge moment of post religion out there that is helping humans get out of superstition. Atheism is one form of that, but not the only one. Grouping them all together as just as bad as the religious abusers is simply not right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism
No doubt painting it all with one brush is reductionist, there are good people in all corners of the world. What I would say is, even the genuinely good actors practicing these faiths are all acting as cover for the monsters, whether they want to or not. The most devout people should rather denounce their faith as to not enable the evil that gets perpetrated in their name.
Of course that won’t happen, but I don’t know how else we can reconcile with the idea that these faiths are far, far, far, more destructive than productive, just accounting for the few vile wolves in sheep’s clothing that are actively working towards the destruction of this planet despite the rest of us.
Why would someone who already denounces the church and the evils of institutional religion. But happens to have private contemplations of a spiritual nature, Denounce that personal experience also? Especially if it is their private experience that makes them understand how evil the church is?
(This does not describe me but does describe multiple people who consider themselves religious that i know)
Because it’s more honest, and the closer we get to the truth, the more lives we can save.
Nothing is “spiritual”. Reframe the experience in reality. I promise you can keep all the benefits, just get rid of the needless risk.
I think that may be the catch 22 that leaves us where we are, unfortunately
So long as your flaws are your problems, you choose to live worse for some reason. But it is not just religion, but any kind of magical thinking. Like when someone refuses psych medicine because they believe they are special, and can overpower the disease with willpower.
You put people at risk willingly by making irrational choices, just because they are convenient.
Having said that, I have little issue with Cristian atheism, as it’s not an actual religion, but an ideology.
For the majority of people that identify as religious, it is just a philosophy/ideology.
That why i take a stand when people shout that “everyone who identifies as religious is part of a death cult”
I am fortunate not to live in an area where zealots are a majority. I only know a single person who actually believes in anything magical (angels) and she does not think that they can intervent in everyday life.
I do know plenty of people who still identify as religious. My Christian teacher who explained me that the bible is just some old book not to take literal.
Even the priests who baptised my son (atheist parents baptising their kids is very common where i live) does not personify god as a separate Devine entity and the one time i heard him preach it was more pro socialism and warning for social isolation by new technology then anything magical.
That is concerning, given that the actual religious folk’s religion is based on an anectodal book, that means they can twist it to whatever suits them.
Like the prospherity gosspel. It is so easy to influence people.
I mean, that’s what MAGA is doing, treating their own religion book as “communist propaganda”.
I think it’s part of post-theism actually. It’s nothing to be concerned about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-theism
Its includes things like atheism. Christian atheism and cultural Christians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Christians
There are similar branches in other religions, some have even be older then Roman Catholicism itself.
When statistically more than half of people who identify as Christian proclaim that experience is entirely personal. I am inclined to belief they are a part of this. All the religious people i know treat the bible just like any other historical book on traditional philosophy. They don’t go to church (outside special occasions), they aren’t followers of anyone but themselves. They are still considered Christians by themselves and those around them.
The pure definition of “Christianity” in a modern context seems to be nothing more then “having doubts that death will be the end of your conscious experience + some abstract feeling of the universe being an everlasting singularity”
Whether people do good or bad, is entirely up to the people.
To compare with communism. I very much oppose the ussr and ccpr, but that doesn’t mean das kapital by marx is a source of evil.
It’s literally what the bible says, and believers are killing people every day because THAT’S WHAT THE RELIGION IS ABOUT.
What the bible says doesn’t matter to religious people who don’t follow that bible.
I think it’s because of your protestant cult upbringing, where the pastor’s bible was absolute truth. That’s a particularly conservative strand, one that denies the Vatican any interpretive authority. Its official role is to interpret a closed revelation, one that supposedly ended when the last apostle died, not to speak as God. Not a defence, just factual information.
I’ve told you before that I’ve read about 3 different bibles. Both the catholic school I went to and my atheist parents considered all of them bibles. But to the extremists you’re talking about, all 3 would be condemned as heretical socialist texts that aren’t the bible at all.
A minority doesn’t get to describe a majority. If we allow that, we lose what we stand for, because people who are malicious will always twist it to evil.
On your nazi argument, compare it with communism. The USSR and the CCP both claim to be socialist and both murder any countering voices. The truth is they aren’t communist, because they have a political class separate from the people.
Fascists have always done this. Embrace, extend, extinguish. With Christianity it started with the Romans, who took three centuries of history that had held no centralised or institutional power and narrowed it down. what was left was the version where the afterlife is a threat you hold over people. This is what most resembles “a death cult”, an institutional invention and not the original philosophy. It’s one of the reasons I got interested in the non-roman branches that warned against scripture, though those have been coopted by evil figures plenty of times too.
The roman cult, and especially the protestant branches, have done an insane amount of harm to people over the years. Yet the original philosophies survived all of it, and in a modern context, mostly in Europe, they’ve turned into the non theological and personal forms of Christianity that exist today.
It’s still called Christianity because the original stories use Jesus as the character who is the example of good. A bit like a mask in Greek theatre that tells you what the character stands for.
A lot of the good ideas are still there, not just in bible interpretations but in how people actually experience morality. Helping those in need, showing compassion without judgement, finding some personal peace in a chaotic world. None of that needs an afterlife to work, which is sort of the point.
I prefer “spiritual” myself, but I can’t fault people who are surrounded by likeminded rational people who all call themselves Christians for labelling the extremist an outsider and the church old fashioned.
What really made the difference is that people can now compare translations and read the different materials themselves instead of getting one interpretation from one source.
A majority of christians believe the bible, for fuck’s sake. Stop pretending my situation is some kind of fluke. Stop running cover for literal death cultists, abusers. Stop choosing death.
They hide their stupid beliefs or they take the cowardly approach of trying to leave every possibility open instead of having consistent values.
So 79% think reading the bible is important. The bible is hate speech. Please stop defending it and the people who consult it for guidance.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/04/14/5-facts-on-how-americans-view-the-bible-and-other-religious-texts/
And you can see through their bullshit because of the evidence. Why can’t you do that for christianity? How many tales of parents abusing their children per the bible’s explicit instructions do you need to hear before you acknowledge it is a problem? Fuck you for throwing my life away, selfish coward.
Again, HAVE YOU READ THE BIBLE? It has been a death cult since Genesis. Yahweh is an authoritarian death god. Christ is yahweh. Christianity is fascist.
This is the problem. Jesus is not good. It is not loving to demand complete submission under threat of eternal punishment. It is not loving to tell deadly lies.
How selfish. Try using your brain. Magic isn’t real. Souls and spirits are not real.
In every translation, in every version, it’s a fucking death cult.
Fuck you for choosing willful ignorance. Fuck you for choosing death for innocent people. The blood on your hands will never come off. The least you could do is stop fucking killing.