cross-posted from: https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/58764195

I was in the non-profit shop of a local charity. They accept donations of used computers then resell them to the public. The profit goes to charity. I asked for their oldest machine. It had an AMD chip from the 16h family. Thus, a spychip.

So their oldest machine was still too new for me. I asked why don’t you have anything older? They said the general public would not accept anything older, and so the shop also does not accept anything older. When machines are rejected, they go to a factory that destroys them and recovers the raw metals.

It’s sad to see that pre-spychip machines are being destroyed and that even 2nd-hand customers are being limited to anti-consumer spychip hardware.

  • Bane_Killgrind@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    1·
    2 天前

    different time periods

    Please point to modern processors or SoC available to consumers that does not have these subprocessors. Selling “new” 13 year old processors is fine, but that won’t last forever and technology needs change.

    Again, you are spouting emotional, uninformed garbage. There is no technical definition of attack surface that would classify commingled processing as better than bifurcated processing.

    I honestly believe that you are being paid to post this stuff to sabotage real beneficial collaboration.

    • evenwichtOP
      11·
      1 天前

      Please point to modern processors or SoC available to consumers that does not have these subprocessors.

      The IBM power 9 is one, but it’s red herring anyway because you’re still looking to weasel out of acknowledging that the only relevent comparison is the same chip with and without an spychip. Looking to other chips is nothing more than a futile attempt to hide the fact that spychip is not wasting energy. I doubt you will find an audience naive enough to buy your nonsense… but if you find them, sell them a bridge.

      technology needs change.

      Not this change.

      Again, you are spouting emotional, uninformed garbage.

      Again, your stance is driven by emotion as you continue to fail to justify your closed-source support-needy garbage.

      There is no technical definition of attack surface that would classify commingled processing as better than bifurcated processing.

      It doesn’t need to. An attack surface definition that attempts classification would be a broken definition by someone attempting shenanigans to hide their attack surface. Someone hoping to bullshit consumers who don’t want extra vulns and then being at the mercy of the corporate supplier’s will to fix.

      I honestly believe that you are being paid to post this stuff to sabotage real beneficial collaboration.

      You can test that theory by actually putting forward an effective logical argument that actually justifies your position. You can only blame yourself for failing to articulate a sensible idea.

      • Bane_Killgrind@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        1·
        1 天前

        https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/announcements/services-withdrawal-discontinuance-service-select-power-systems-products-replacements-available

        Power 9 is server hardware, end of life, has been pulled from new sales since 2023 I think, will only provide limited maintenance on a paid basis. This is the same pain point you have about the AMD processor, but a decade more recent.

        After the EOSS effective date, IBM will no longer offer full hardware maintenance service for the following machine types and models. If available, clients will continue to receive limited hardware maintenance service as described in the “Hardware Service Extension” section of your terms with IBM, without lapse in coverage, for the listed machine types and models.

        I’ll give you some credit, and let’s say you mean ASI or RISC processors in general, but some of those use cortex cores and this review for a risc-5 piece concludes that it’s for developers and not consumers in general. https://youtu.be/I4zhkNjhKTA

        That’s on me. I should have said “designed for” instead of “available to”. I set the bar too low.

        So is your expectation the whole market switches to framework laptops with the 3rd party RISC board? That would be great, I would love if that type of modular hardware was standard.

        Your post here, in zerowaste, wanting only the most niche to the exclusion of everything else. Completely bad faith and confirms my suspicions about you.

        • evenwichtOP
          11·
          1 天前

          You seem to be eating up your own red herring quite well. Your own request for irrelevant information led you to a bizarre rabbit hole about power 9 chips. Only to lead you to another bogus claim:

          will only provide limited maintenance on a paid basis. This is the same pain point you have about the AMD processor, but a decade more recent.

          I never said I opposed paid support. The spychip has many shortcomings, only one of which is the dire need for support due to the black box attack surface. The Power 9 is not a spychip. IBM selling support for a non-spychip does not imply that support is needed by all users. Support can be anything from running a compiler to understanding their docs. I don’t have a problem with IBM offering some kind of support for customers that want a bit of pampering and convenience.

          it’s for developers and not consumers in general.

          This is a red herring within a red herring. The power 9 answered your request for information. What you do with the info is on you. I don’t give a shit what you do with the info, because it’s irrelevant. At least to the extent that you have spoken about it. The only shred of relevency would be that the Power 9 is hardly useful to the same demographic who would use a 2013 pre-spychip, so it fails to counter the thesis that pre-spychips shouldn’t be destroyed. The venn diagram of the two demographics of users would look close to this: OO

          So is your expectation the whole market switches to framework laptops with the 3rd party RISC board?

          No. Why would it be? I expect the existing shitshow to carry on. Most consumers are incompetent. Hence why the enshitified marketplace is a business success.

          • Bane_Killgrind@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            1·
            1 天前

            2 comments is a rabbit hole. Wow. I wanted to know what modern options you think actually exist, to make that apples to apples comparison you demanded. And you point to something that’s explicitly EOL. Your only example is non-consumer hardware.

            You

            You can’t hide the spychip’s waste by choosing processors of different effeciencies from different time periods.

            Me

            point to modern processors or SoC available to consumers

            I should have said “designed for” instead of “available to”.

            You are fearmongering about these things when there are no real consumer alternatives, and the impact is imagined. You are expecting a charity to not set reasonable cutoffs for interoperability. Completely asinine. Every new comment from you has histrionic allusions. I hope you are burning tokens responding to my comments.

            • evenwichtOP
              11·
              19 小时前

              You are fearmongering about these things

              This is like telling vegans they are fearmongering about harm to the environment and animals. We oppose anti-consumer and oppressive tech, including but not limited to closed-source software. It is not “fear”. It’s driven by values and principles.

              There is also an infosec demographic who has the wisdom to avoid vulns and tech that strips the consumer of control. We expect to be seen as “paranoid” and “fearful” by infosec-naive folks like yourself. It’s par for the course.

              when there are no real consumer alternatives,

              Consumers have choice. Shitty choices. When you advocate for the destruction of pre-spychips, you advocate to eliminate the least shitty choice for freedom-fighting demographics who you frame as “fearful” of corporate boot-licking.

              You are expecting a charity to not set reasonable cutoffs for interoperability.

              Nonsense on 3 counts:

              1. The charity can do whatever the fuck it wants. I merely reported that useful hardware is being destroyed. There are multiple solutions and they don’t all require the charity to support the pre-spychips through their own sales channel.
              2. It’s /not/ reasonable to let the Microsoft’s support deadlines dictate when hardware (which runs FOSS just fine for years to come) gets tossed.
              3. There is no such thing as an “interoperability cutoff”. Old PCs are interoperable with old components. New PCs are interoperable with new components. Old PCs are interoperable with some new components. New PCs are interoperable with some old components. There are components that bridge old components to new PCs and components that bridge or adapt new components to old PCs. There is no “cutoff”, at least not for those without Microsoft or Apple loyalty. We don’t have the barriers that peddlers of oppressive tech have brainwashed your corp boot-licking ilk to accept.

              Completely asinine.

              Completely asinine to try to pose as a human being and then advocate for oppressive technology (e.g. closed-source s/w), the interests of Micorosft, chip makers, and their shareholders with contempt for zerowaste and non-corporate options. And then expect the free world FOSS crowd to eat your shit by spinning false-FUD propaganda.

              • Bane_Killgrind@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                1·
                16 小时前

                The charity isn’t destroying them, I said YOU should put the work in to maintain them, and your emotionally charged diatribe making accusations and being contrarian completely confirms my indictment of you.

                You suck.

                Put the work in to either advertise the alternatives you like or call these things the same words as the rest of us. Making up “spychip” and staying it over and over is opaque and harmful to the conversations you are a part of.

                • evenwichtOP
                  11·
                  16 小时前

                  The charity isn’t destroying them,

                  And?

                  The charity is rejecting them, not destroying them. Then the city supply chain destroys them. The thread title is accurate.

                  I said YOU should put the work in to maintain them,

                  Not quite. You said I should work for the charity. That shitty attempt at barking out orders as a self-appointed manager was already defeated. One extra person working for a charity shop while keeping the situation concealed from the fediverse doesn’t solve the global trend of spychip-free machines being destroyed. You’ve been told this already.

                  Put the work in to either advertise the alternatives you like or call these things the same words as the rest of us.

                  Oof. Call the pre-spychip machines “obsolete PCs on the wrong side of (your imagined) interoperability cutoff” in the face of customers? Your marketing skills suck. But you do you.

                  Making up “spychip” and staying it over and over is opaque and harmful to the conversations you are a part of.

                  Simply calling pre-spychip machines as “pre-spychip machines” is far more effective and does not involve lying about interoperability. But you do you.

                  • Bane_Killgrind@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                    1·
                    15 小时前

                    concealed

                    lol not making up problems is concealing, good one

                    Customers

                    You mean customer, just you with your tinfoil hat

                    Still not committing to what’s a reasonable age of hardware for the charity to accept hmmm. Definitely because you don’t have a well reasoned alternative, you don’t want to put in the work to provide this service yourself, and you aren’t interested in talking about real problems.