“These suckers are socially obligated to give me free lemonade if I look like I really need it”
“Fuck you, you can’t have my lemons to make lemonade for that slacker, I need my lemons”
“No one wants to provide the materials and do the dangerous work of fixing my roof for free! And now my house will collapse and I’ll have nowhere to live…”
One of them lost a roof during some recent storms. He just moved into the neighborhood and no one had his contact info. I found his house listing on zillow, called his realtor and managed to get her to get him home in time to get his pets and documents secure before the next wave of storms hit.
My neighbors next to me are retired, they have an old dog and are struggling with health issues (all 3 of them) neighbor across the street had a falling out with his son, daughter is graduating high school this year. Other neighbor got a new job and a raise, has been working really hard on his yard and put in a nice gazebo and grill. The guys next to him are working on their drag racing VW Bug. The people on his other side are from Pakistan and are starting a food truck business.
Bro has never lived anywhere but buttfuck suburbia and it shows.
Can you explain how/why people in urban or rural areas would behave any different?
Your first comment is exhibiting the isolationist mindset of suburnites while simultaneously marking mutual aid as anathema to your world view. Seems completely captured by capitalism to me.
Your first comment is exhibiting the isolationist mindset of suburnites
Nah, they were just stating the reality. I know you’d like to keep your fantasy about an anarchist utopia intact, but in case you haven’t interacted with many people lately, I’ll just gently remind you that most people are not that altruistic.
while simultaneously marking mutual aid as anathema to your world view.
They didn’t say anything about their personal worldview. Maybe they think that anarchist utopia of yours would be the dream. But they know that it is a dream and nothing more. Acknowledging the prevailing mindset in society and the limitations that mindset places on collectivist social reform is not an expression of personal conviction.
The fact that society is an emergent property of humanity instead of us killing each other to extinction has already proved you wrong about humanity. Please do not add anymore shit to the conversation.
Um what. Where in the history textbook did you read this part about humanity not killing each other?
The entire course of human civilization has been about humans killing each other, sects killing each other, kingdoms and nations killing each other.
The only reason we’ve enjoyed relative peace for the last 80 years (and I understand how much weight that “relative” is pulling) is because of the rules-based-order that emerged as a result of human societies utilizing governments as a medium through which to engage in diplomacy. Which, in case you missed it, largely occurred due to each respective nation-state engaging due to self-interest.
So no, we’re not some essentially altruistic species that only survived to procreate and evolve due to our perfect selflessness. Humans are primarily egocentric, and as individuals develop they expand their “sense of self” to larger in-groups: to their family, to their neighborhood, to their schoolmates, to their subcultures, to their geographical region, to their nation, and if they don’t stop there, the enlightened cosmopolitans among us might expand our sense of identity to humanity as a whole, or to the entire planet, or to all sentient life throughout the universe. But that is far from the default state of humanity, and the relative few who reach that level of collective awareness are a very small minority indeed. And most people who stop short of reaching that level of consciousness only end up killing whoever is left outside of their personal “in-group” anyway, no matter how small or large that in-group becomes.
The altruistic few are mostly even regarded with suspicion by their peers and estranged from society, because most people simply don’t trust the intentions of someone claiming to have a selfless motivation.
Resting the fate of society as a whole on the good will and inclinations of the average member of it is a terrible idea, especially when billionaire oligarchs are already being allowed to basically live anarchistically, and they show you every single day what they’re deciding to do with that. I’ll give you a hint, it’s not altruism.
So no, you’re wrong, and telling me to stop contributing to the discussion is not going to change that. Seriously, what kind of anarchist tries to win a discussion by bullying into silence anyone who shares a conflicting opinion? 👀 Hmmm…
Your first comment is exhibiting the isolationist mindset of suburnites
I don’t think you can narrow that general mindset down to suburbanites. People in all kinds of population densities form in-groups and outgroups, it doesn’t matter if they are in suburbia, a big city, or out in the country. I lived in Baltimore for a year, and that was probably the most socially isolated I’ve ever been. The east coast of the US is just a bucket of crabs, everyone trying to climb over everyone else. The people there wouldn’t even spit at you for free. My partner grew up in a very rural environment, like “outside city limits, and that city only had one traffic light of the blinking yellow variety” rural. The help they got growing up was from family. They would do odd jobs for neighbors and neighbors would do likewise, but there was always some expectation of barter or compensation for materials and services. They definitely had a concept of private property, and knew their tools, time, and expertise were valuable assets necessary to continue their desired lifestyle.
Please, contrast my experiences with yours. I’d love to hear a first-hand account from someone living in a current anarchist society.
So you’re saying rural America survives off of mutual aid and community welfare while smacking anarchists with the same hand? You just blow in from Stupidville?
No, I’m saying that your reading comprehension abilities and your lofty ideals of a utopian society where no one needs property and everyone contributes as best they’re able with no concern for getting value out of an exchange proportional to the effort put in, is indicative of a failed home-school education and a lack of real world experience.
is there a reason the lemonade stand wouldn’t set it to the highest price that still sells enough for their workers to be paid so the workers have to work less?
Likewise:
How capitalists think socialism works:
– “My lemonade is set at this price and we make a loss. My boss says I can’t criticise that decision.”
– “Mine too. I’m not going to improve mine.”
How (market) socialism actually works:
– “We have no boss and we use the lowest price that gives all lemonade workers a fair pay.”
– “Same.”
How capitalists think communism works:
(Same as the socialism one)
How communism actually works:
– “We made lemonade and still have some left.”
– “Give whatever is good to those modestly asking for it.”
How Capitalists Think Anarchism Works:
“I refuse to do anything”
How Anarchism actually works:
“Let’s use my lemons and your sugar to make some lemonade as someone was asking for some”
How anarchism actually works:
“These suckers are socially obligated to give me free lemonade if I look like I really need it”
“Fuck you, you can’t have my lemons to make lemonade for that slacker, I need my lemons”
“No one wants to provide the materials and do the dangerous work of fixing my roof for free! And now my house will collapse and I’ll have nowhere to live…”
Bro has never lived anywhere but buttfuck suburbia and it shows. I’d ask how your neighbors are doing but you dont know.
Dont retaliate on broadstrokes with broadstrokes. We get lost in the bushes fighting ourselves while cunts contunue ruling the world
One of them lost a roof during some recent storms. He just moved into the neighborhood and no one had his contact info. I found his house listing on zillow, called his realtor and managed to get her to get him home in time to get his pets and documents secure before the next wave of storms hit.
My neighbors next to me are retired, they have an old dog and are struggling with health issues (all 3 of them) neighbor across the street had a falling out with his son, daughter is graduating high school this year. Other neighbor got a new job and a raise, has been working really hard on his yard and put in a nice gazebo and grill. The guys next to him are working on their drag racing VW Bug. The people on his other side are from Pakistan and are starting a food truck business.
Can you explain how/why people in urban or rural areas would behave any different?
Your first comment is exhibiting the isolationist mindset of suburnites while simultaneously marking mutual aid as anathema to your world view. Seems completely captured by capitalism to me.
Nah, they were just stating the reality. I know you’d like to keep your fantasy about an anarchist utopia intact, but in case you haven’t interacted with many people lately, I’ll just gently remind you that most people are not that altruistic.
They didn’t say anything about their personal worldview. Maybe they think that anarchist utopia of yours would be the dream. But they know that it is a dream and nothing more. Acknowledging the prevailing mindset in society and the limitations that mindset places on collectivist social reform is not an expression of personal conviction.
The fact that society is an emergent property of humanity instead of us killing each other to extinction has already proved you wrong about humanity. Please do not add anymore shit to the conversation.
Um what. Where in the history textbook did you read this part about humanity not killing each other?
The entire course of human civilization has been about humans killing each other, sects killing each other, kingdoms and nations killing each other.
The only reason we’ve enjoyed relative peace for the last 80 years (and I understand how much weight that “relative” is pulling) is because of the rules-based-order that emerged as a result of human societies utilizing governments as a medium through which to engage in diplomacy. Which, in case you missed it, largely occurred due to each respective nation-state engaging due to self-interest.
So no, we’re not some essentially altruistic species that only survived to procreate and evolve due to our perfect selflessness. Humans are primarily egocentric, and as individuals develop they expand their “sense of self” to larger in-groups: to their family, to their neighborhood, to their schoolmates, to their subcultures, to their geographical region, to their nation, and if they don’t stop there, the enlightened cosmopolitans among us might expand our sense of identity to humanity as a whole, or to the entire planet, or to all sentient life throughout the universe. But that is far from the default state of humanity, and the relative few who reach that level of collective awareness are a very small minority indeed. And most people who stop short of reaching that level of consciousness only end up killing whoever is left outside of their personal “in-group” anyway, no matter how small or large that in-group becomes.
The altruistic few are mostly even regarded with suspicion by their peers and estranged from society, because most people simply don’t trust the intentions of someone claiming to have a selfless motivation.
Resting the fate of society as a whole on the good will and inclinations of the average member of it is a terrible idea, especially when billionaire oligarchs are already being allowed to basically live anarchistically, and they show you every single day what they’re deciding to do with that. I’ll give you a hint, it’s not altruism.
So no, you’re wrong, and telling me to stop contributing to the discussion is not going to change that. Seriously, what kind of anarchist tries to win a discussion by bullying into silence anyone who shares a conflicting opinion? 👀 Hmmm…
I don’t think you can narrow that general mindset down to suburbanites. People in all kinds of population densities form in-groups and outgroups, it doesn’t matter if they are in suburbia, a big city, or out in the country. I lived in Baltimore for a year, and that was probably the most socially isolated I’ve ever been. The east coast of the US is just a bucket of crabs, everyone trying to climb over everyone else. The people there wouldn’t even spit at you for free. My partner grew up in a very rural environment, like “outside city limits, and that city only had one traffic light of the blinking yellow variety” rural. The help they got growing up was from family. They would do odd jobs for neighbors and neighbors would do likewise, but there was always some expectation of barter or compensation for materials and services. They definitely had a concept of private property, and knew their tools, time, and expertise were valuable assets necessary to continue their desired lifestyle.
Please, contrast my experiences with yours. I’d love to hear a first-hand account from someone living in a current anarchist society.
So you’re saying rural America survives off of mutual aid and community welfare while smacking anarchists with the same hand? You just blow in from Stupidville?
No, I’m saying that your reading comprehension abilities and your lofty ideals of a utopian society where no one needs property and everyone contributes as best they’re able with no concern for getting value out of an exchange proportional to the effort put in, is indicative of a failed home-school education and a lack of real world experience.
The only way we can work together as a people is through the almighty dollar or Sun God worship. Anything else is ridiculous.
What makes you think people work together even with the threat/promise of those two things?
is there a reason the lemonade stand wouldn’t set it to the highest price that still sells enough for their workers to be paid so the workers have to work less?
“Their” workers? The business belongs to them, not the other way around.