• Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
    2·
    7 天前

    also puts alot of pressure on woman to have kids, thats why they often get to stay home longer after reaching way past adulthood than if it was a man, apparently its the opposite.

  • Skyline969@piefed.caEnglish
    63·
    8 天前

    My fiancée and I just flatly say we can’t have kids and that shuts most people up.

    Never mind the reason why we can’t have kids is because we don’t like them.

    • some_guyEnglish
      13·
      7 天前

      While we also choose a child-free existence, it wasn’t until some close friends had kids that were awesome that I realized I don’t dislike kids. I dislike shitty parents.

      That said, I can go meet up with people whenever I feel like it. I also have lots more disposable income. It’s pretty great if it’s what you want anyway.

        • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
          535·
          8 天前

          Well it’s because of the notion that the very reason of being alive is to propagate more life. That’s the fundamental nature of life because without that there would be no life. So if you think that life is worth while, it would be logical that you contribute. Otherwise it would be somewhat selfish. And such a mentality of not wanting to sacrifice one’s freedom in order to be a parent and take on that responsibility comes across as immature.
          I don’t think you should have kids if you don’t want to. I’m just explaining why some people find it bad and upsetting that you don’t.

                • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
                  11·
                  6 天前

                  I suppose that’s true. But in this case I didn’t really did I? I was explaining how some people think. I can relate to it, but since I don’t care if humans go extinct, it’s not my mantra.

          • Z745812939054@lemmy.zip
            23·
            8 天前

            not having kids = selfish has got to be in the top 5 dumbest arguments i’ve ever heard, especially considering that kids today and their kids and so on are destined to grow up on a toxic hellscape wasteland planet.

            “oh the kids will fix it”

            LOL so not having kids = selfish, but having kids so they can fix the problems of the last couple hundred years = generous. got it

            and you’re confusing “purpose of life” with biological instinct. yes, all living things from bacteria and viruses on up the evolutionary ladder are hardwired to engage in behavior that results in the passing on of their genes. “purpose” is a cognitive construct invented by philosophers who couldn’t stand being just animals. there’s no formula for it, or even quantifiable evidence that there is such a thing. so my “purpose” is to not have kids

            • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
              410·
              8 天前

              I think it’s always seemed like the world was going to hell. It’s all relative.
              I don’t care if you have kids. I don’t really care if humans go extinct. I’m happy to be alive so I’m glad my parents wanted to have kids,

              • Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml
                2·
                7 天前

                It’s always seemed like the world is going to hell, but now we have 200 years of scientific data to prove that we’re making the entirety of the biosphere uninhabitable for the majority of species on the planet, including us.

              • baines@lemmy.cafeEnglish
                52·
                7 天前

                it’s not, that you can’t tell is a personal failing on your par

          • ruby@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            11·
            8 天前

            there’s billions of people in the world, there’s zero impact on whether the humanity will continue or not. being upset at someone for not procreating is silly and having kids just for the sake of propagating life as if people were scarce is ridiculous.

            • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
              28·
              8 天前

              It’s just a logical argument such as if everyone decided not to have kids, humans would go extinct pretty quickly. Not that I really care. I’m happy to be alive so I’m glad my parents weren’t against having kids.

              • ruby@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                5·
                8 天前

                i get where “if everyone does that then it’d be bad” comes from but it doesn’t apply here, if you look around do you realistically see it as a necessity for everyone to have kids to save the humanity from going extinct? if one or few people says that they don’t want to procreate, will every single person in the world follow suit? in case that i live my life without having kids, what’s the worst that will happen to humanity because of my choice?

                i’m also happy to be alive, but i also have reasons why i don’t want to have kids and it’s not like i’m taking life away from someone with that decision.

                • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
                  14·
                  8 天前

                  All good in my book. Don’t have kids if you don’t want to. I’m just explaining where the notion comes from.
                  Sure you not having kids won’t cause the population to collapse. But it’s a bit the same as you not throwing your garbage in the trash - one person doing that won’t make a significant difference.

          • kestrel7_7@lemmy.world
            51·
            7 天前

            Are asexual people selfish? Are monks who don’t fuck selfish? Are infertile people selfish? Are people who adopt instead of having bio kids selfish? Do none of these people count as “life”? I pronounce you fully ridiculous.

            • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
              12·
              6 天前

              No. Yes. No. No. They all count as life. Yes, I am ridiculous, but not for explaining why people might see those who chose not to have children as selfish.

          • mojofrododojo@lemmy.worldEnglish
            51·
            7 天前

            I’m just explaining why some people find it bad and upsetting that you don’t.

            that’s a whole fuckin paragraph to say “they’re nosy and entitled” - and it’s absolute garbage. " if you think that life is worth while, it would be logical that you contribute. Otherwise it would be somewhat selfish. " utter fucking garbage. only people adding to the population pressure of OVER 8 BILLION FUCKING HUMANS are worth it? everyone else is selfish?

            STOP FOR A MOMENT AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

            8 BILLION +, AND YOU INSIST THAT MORE ARE NEEDED OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE SOMEWHAT SELFISH?

            gotta be a fucking troll

            • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
              23·
              7 天前

              Actually the world population is starting to decline. People have value. I’m not sure what the optimal world population is, but as it goes down it’s going to be painful as demographics shift.

              • Olhonestjim@lemmy.world
                3·
                7 天前

                Human population is not declining. The acceleration rate of population increase is decreasing. It’s still going ever faster and faster, just a little less faster than we were. And it’s still an absolutely staggering, incomprehensible population increase.

                And then there’s the animal farming to consider. Hey, what happened to the Amazon?

                • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
                  11·
                  6 天前

                  Well I doubt I’ll still be alive when we get back down to 7 billion and are in free fall.
                  Yes I was wrong when I said population was in decline. The rate of population growth is slowing down, so we can predict a decline starting in like 50 years.

  • Victor@lemmy.world
    406·
    9 天前

    She’s right in that they are a lot of work, but they’re worth it if you want children in the first place.

    It’s all about what you think the work is worth, I guess. Anything in life that you want, and you need to work for, you do the work if you want it badly enough. Pretty simple.

      • Victor@lemmy.world
        2·
        7 天前

        Definitely a factor indeed. Sadly money is a huge factor deciding whether or not a couple is suitable to have children. 😞

    • alsimoneau@lemmy.ca
      151·
      8 天前

      But they can’t choose to be born. Having children is intrinsically a non-consensual act.

      • Victor@lemmy.world
        101·
        8 天前

        That’s not really relevant to the point I’m making but, yeah, it’s not a consensual act to have offspring. Nothing that’s ever been born has chosen to be born. But countless things have been happy they were.

        In the words of Stephen Colbert, “It’s a gift to exist.”

        Obviously quite dependent on circumstances…

  • Gonzako@lemmy.world
    29·
    8 天前

    I personally want to work for a world where the choice of having an offspring doesn’t ruin you financially

  • Waterpumpee@lemmus.orgEnglish
    26·
    9 天前

    I see that among my wifes friends and i think its the genuine wish to be at a similar stage in life. To do playdates and shit together.

  • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
    21·
    9 天前

    If they don’t know anyone who chose differently, then their choice just cannot have been a mistake

  • Girl Named ZERO@piefed.zeromedia.vipEnglish
    21·
    9 天前

    I don’t think I’ll ever have kids precisely because of how much work and responsibility they are. But if I ever have a kid, it would not be mine; this world is too fucked up to bring a new person into, I would instead adopt one of the many kids who need a parent

    • boredsquirrel (he)@slrpnk.net
      4·
      8 天前

      I heard from a social worker that adoption is kinda the easy way. Foster parenting is harder, as you get more difficult cases. In any way, children need good households to grow up in

      • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
        3·
        7 天前

        i think because for adoption, it seen like getting a new puppy/kitten you can mold to your needs, and its mostly toddlers and babies, older children are less likely to get adopted. with a older child, they already have baggage with them, much harder to raise.

          • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
            2·
            5 天前

            i think adoption is harder than fostering, you dont have to deal much with the child. but adoption you have to raise it as your own. also if you are going through "official"channels its very difficult.

            • boredsquirrel (he)@slrpnk.net
              2·
              4 天前

              Interesting debates to be had on state influence.

              Like in “Silo” where even natural birth rights were given and taken by authorities with potential for abuse.

              I would also argue that the ratio of unsuited parents is significantly smaller in people seeking adoption than in those that just happen to create children in their own.

  • mrgoosmoos@lemmy.caEnglish
    151·
    7 天前

    what a shit take by the coworkers

    imagine thinking somebody accurately assessing a situation and not wanting to be a shitty parent is disappointing

    I’ve got a lot less respect for shitty parents and people who don’t think things through

    • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
      41·
      7 天前

      I’ve got a lot less respect for shitty parents and people who don’t think things through

      That’s because most people are conformists.

  • speaksintv@lemmy.world
    141·
    9 天前

    Let me state first that I LOVE my kids and enjoy every second with them.

    That being said, if you realized you don’t like having kids after the fact then misery loves company and kids are A LOT of work and expense.

    • DMck@lemmy.worldBanned
      6·
      8 天前

      Please, if you realized you don’t like having kids after the fact, do NOT have more after the first! Why so many go on to have more than the one!

  • Z745812939054@lemmy.zip
    131·
    9 天前

    i think that if someone is legit mad because you don’t have kids, then it’s not that you don’t have kids, it’s that your extra time and money aren’t thrown out the window, and their “it’s SoOoOoOo worth it, though!!!” is replied to with “of course it is! drinks after work? no? maybe over the weekend? no? just let us know, i guess…”

  • Afaithfulnihilist@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    143·
    9 天前

    She would probably have to get a second job to support them which means she would never see them and she would be working all the time and miserable.

    Having a kid costs so much money it’s hard to explain even to my parents one of whom was a grant writer and nonprofit organizer for children’s healthcare.

    If you don’t have at least $50,000 in the bank that you could spend without suffering you’re not ready for what the hospital is going to do to you. We have totally fucked this whole country up.

    But we need new people here. We don’t necessarily need Americans to make them. Plenty of people see what we do here and come here anyway. They are willing and ready to make the kind of sacrifices necessary have another generation of their family, and we generally as a society are benefiting from their ambitions to do that.

    I don’t understand how so many people can be so pro-birth and anti-human at the same time, but I don’t begrudge people who run the numbers and say the math doesn’t math and so abstain from having children.

    • Knoxvomica@lemmy.ca
      91·
      8 天前

      I need you Americans to understand this clearly, my partner and I have had two kids in a hospital and we paid exactly zero dollars. I mean, philosophically we pay taxes so technically we paid for it, but like, Jesus you guys have it mixed up.

  • Malyca@lemmy.zip
    154·
    9 天前

    I think it’s a little crazy to bring children into the world as it stands today. I feel really guilty for having my kids, I should have foreseen this.