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Norm Finkelstein argues back that anti-Semitism is defined as an “irrational” hatred of Jews, but that the resentment is rational.
Hasan argues that no people are monolithic, and the scapegoating of Jews is a common tactic. That people understand that when Tucker Carlson says America has “demographic concerns”, that is white supremacy.
He says that if Jews were monolithic there would not be such a generational divide on Zionism and billions spent to maintain its indoctrination.
Finkelstein says he would not tell someone who has experienced the Holocaust that they should not hate Germans. And that he would not argue with a Palestinian who feels the same way about Jews.
Norm cites that 95% of Israeli citizens agree with the force used against Gaza, and that its citizen army that represents its population carried out mass starvation as a method of war.
Hasan Piker says he agrees with the facts, but he has a more optimistic perspective in terms of changing people’s minds on conflating Judaism with Zionism.
Someone I follow online made a video on this subject and raised the extremely good point that if neo-nazi rhetoric gets normalized that has horrifying implications for the power it gives those people, and the harm they might do to other vulnerable people whether theyre Jewish or not
Also saw someone say “you must love the oppressed more than you hate the oppressor” and that feels like a really helpful guide in sincere allyship rooted in a desire to see the liberation of people who are being harmed
I agree that neonazi rhetoric should never be normalized… but in your opinion, who in this hypothetical is normalizing neo-nazi rehtoric? what exactly is the implication here?
imo, when people conflate Israel with judaism, that is deeply anti-semitic. The corporate media and western politicians (among others) have normalized that for decades.
That, “loving the oppressed more than you hate the oppressor” sounds like liberal pablum that will never directly challenge oppression. You can do both and they aren’t comparable or incompatible. it is a false choice meant to disarm you. Besides all that, you shouldn’t have to love someone for you to want for them dignity or justice, if you have a moral compass. if you are only concerned with being a good ally, i guess that stuff sounds fine, but it doesn’t do anything except make you feel good. if both of you want an end to oppression you can work as comrades towards that shared goal together. you don’t need to be friends to be comrades.
People using rhetoric that alludes to a secret Jewish cabal, or that Jewish people secretly control the US and is making us support them rather than that we support Israel because they ostensibly protect our imperialist interests in the middle east, and are a settler colonial state just like us (Though in practice theyre kind of too bloodthirsty to be particularly reliable allies a lot of the time). But I regularly see lefitst act like israel controls the US; meanwhile biden is on video in 1986 saying Israel is the best 3 billion dollar investment the US makes, and that if Israel did not exist in the middle east we would have to invent an Israel to defend our interest https://youtu.be/FYLNCcLfIkM
Theres been a pivot by some of the right wing talking heads to be critical of israel, and they tend to have a neonazi flavor of doing that. The video I’m referring to (made by a leftist) talks about how he feels that gives the right cultural power that enables to then turn around and do harm to vulnerable people, he speaks on that as a black man, and also mentions the harm that those types want to do to other vulnerable populations. It feels like some people have adopted that version of antizionism. And that’s not a problem for Palestine to worry about, its a problem for us if those people gain culturally legitimacy because the other talking points those folks have are real dangerous
That being said, I don’t know that Finkelstein is really an example of that specifically, the post just kinda made me think back on the video and I was commenting as I process how all of these ideas relate for me. I apologize if its clumsy, I’m still figuring a lot out about how I relate to political ideology and talking about stuff with people is helpful to me
Actual things a fellow queer (who I believe probably would have self identified as a leftist) I met online sent me, explaining how Jews brought nazi persecution on themselves by being weird and unlikable, and Zionist superbankers actually engineered Nazi germany. I wish I could send the whole thread, but they sent it in like 1 sentence messages and it’d take ages to copy and paste all of it in order. There was a ton of (((they))) conspiracy theory rhetoric, and a lot of “its the Jews fault that the US sucks”, and generally a lot of Protocols of the Elders of Zion, mixed in with fairly common leftist talking points.
I agree they’re not incompatible, but I think people priotizing hating someone over asking themselves how you support the liberation efforts of another group is how you get people like Finkelstein. He centers himself in the Palestinian struggle and it feels to me like thats rooted in having lost sight of who anti-zionist advocacy is supposed to be in service of. The video talks directly about Finkelstein a couple times, and I thought the points were salient though I don’t know if I have processed them well enough to explain them well.
You can do both, but in my mind if your hatred of the oppressor comes first I don’t think you will be a good ally. The hatred of the oppressor should always be a product of your love for the oppressed, and I feel like I regularly see people loose sight of that. I’m learning what it means not to center myself in other people’s fights, and so the quote was helpful to me in remembering what it looks like to show up for people in the way they might benefit from, not the way I want to because it’s cathartic to have someone I’m allowed to have hatred for
Hopefully that clarifies what I do or don’t mean by my first comment. I’ll grab the link to the video in case you wanna know what I’m talking about, though fair warning its a long video
Video: This Video is NOT About Candace Owens by F.D Signifier https://youtu.be/BZkxE0YNj8o (he uses Candace Owens as an example of the right wing antizionists, and to get people to click on the video cause he knows folks would show up for that title and thumbnail)
I found YouTube links in your comment. Here are links to the same videos on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
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