About F’ing time.
Kentucky Gov sends sternly worded letter.
Mitch “The Bitch” McConnell is a traitor who made a career out of obstructing progress for the American people. It’s no surprise that he’s chosen to continue obstructing progress as his final act.
It can’t come soon enough. Not that the treasonous Republican party is going to offer anyone better to fill his position.
Just start the process to replace him already. If he’s alive, he’ll come out of hiding.
My question is simple if the august 3rd? deadline is reached and then they announce he is deceased and has been what recourse do we have? The reason i understand they have not announced it is to prevent maisie from running in a special election. I do believe mcconell is likely passed or fully unresponsive.
This is turtle’s last fuck you to ethics and decency
Talk about going out the way you lived.
A coward and traitor.
The next admin can go after his staff for defrauding the government.
Is this a firm “day after it doesn’t matter” deadline?
Or else what?
He has instructed the liberal establishment to prepare their strongest worded letters.
He has instructed the liberal establishment to prepare their strongest worded letters.
Honestly at this point I think the governor should just declare Mitch to be either deceased or unable to serve and start the process of appointing a successor. Then if Mitch’s team challenges him, say look I want to be wrong please produce the Senator for an in person visit or appearance of any kind, or shut up.
Because if you strip away the politics, McConnell is there to represent the interests of his constituents. If he is unwilling or unable to do so then he should be replaced.
Like in chess.
When your opponent puts you in a bad spot, sometimes putting them in a bad position is the best way to get out of your bad position.
Force his hand.
I thought the best way to get out of a bad position is to avoid getting into one in the first place?
I mean it is, but you cant stop the GOP from doing something like this, so you gotta fight back and make them react to your move.
Yeah, there’s no excuse to not do a video conference in this day and age. Mitch could even stay in his bed, or whatever turtles sleep in.
There’s like 20 things he could do all the way from a public appearance down to simply releasing medical records. He’s doing none of them.
When evaluating such things, I look at motivation. I put myself in the other person’s shoes, and ask what set of circumstances or motivations would cause me to act as I am?
Take for example the lot of people who make outlandish claims about hover propulsion, free energy from drinking water, etc.
I put myself in those shoes, and I say ‘okay, I just built a device that turns water into power. What do I do?’
Most likely I patent the thing, build 50 of them, and send them off to research labs for evaluation. When everyone concludes my thing works, I start licensing the patents for $billions and I retire.On the other hand, let’s say I invent a water-to-power machine but it doesn’t work. What do I do? I act sketchy, try to appeal to people without much sense, try to get their money.
Which one more matches the behavior of the person advertising the free energy machine? The second one? Then I guess it’s probably bullshit.
Same deal here. If I was McConnell or his staff and I was alive and was going to return to the Senate, I’d post a video, I’d release medical records, I’d do something to reassure my constituents that I will continue to represent them.
On the other hand if I was a political director for a dead or brain-dead or almost-dead Senator, and I didn’t want the opposing Governor to appoint a successor, I’d do whatever it took to delay the world realizing that the Senator won’t be returning ever. Delay, Deny, Defend. Then once the deadline passes, we announce the Senator has ‘made an unfortunate turn for the worse’ and no longer is able to return. And our defense against fraud is someone we pay off to swear that when our brain-dead comatose Senator was asked if he’d return, his eyelids twitched twice for yes.Yeah, pretty hard to argue against that. Not sure of the details but I imagine there must be some near-term date they’re stalling to reach - no way they could keep this ruse up through the end of his term.
Next Monday.
If he’s found dead or unable to conduct his duties before then, there’s a special election. If that happens after Monday, the seat simply remains vacant until it’s filled January with whomever wins the regular election.
Assuming what’s happening is what we all think/know is happening I would really love to see someone go to jail over this.
Justice in the US no longer comes from the increasingly corrupt legal system. So don’t get your hopes up.
Oh I have no hopes at all. I’d hope that Dems might press it but they seem consistently determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by ignoring their voters’ calls for reform and nominating boring, status-quo candidates like Kamala Harris while actively sidelining more energetic reform-minded candidates. Not to mention half the shit GW Bush did was actively unconstitutional if not actively classifiable as a war crime, IE torture memos, warrantless wiretapping, etc, and the Dems did fuck all about it when they took power.
Time for his medical records to get hacked
Why not bum rush the hospital. Or offer go fund me for $100,000 for any hospital staff that provides proof.
The right have made multiple people millionaires for said hard R to kids on playgrounds.
Kids are bum rushing scientology buildings.
The left are like crying everyday how things suck but then not doing anything effective. So tired of the left
Hospital staff inappropriately accessing a patient’s medical record would violate both HIPAA and the HiTech act. That person could face civil and criminal liability for such an act.
This is why the left fucking suck and MAGA is dominating.
Who fucking cares about HIPAA. Cry about it. Thanks for stopping by to announce you know the rules. Rules don’t matter anymore. Which is why i said give the person a good million like MAGA did for people who yell racial slurs at kids.
Now if you don’t think the left can do the stuff the right is able to, maybe they’re not the dumb ones.
As a healthcare IT worker I can tell you that people in healthcare fucking care about HIPAA. You sound ignorant.
This is such an insane comment 😆
Stop lying
If we all Naruto run at the hospital they can’t stop us all.
Area 51-2: we’ve pivoted from alien pussy to turtle pussy
turtle pussy
Just make absolutely sure which end is which before going to town on a snapping turtle
Right like how the fucking hell do you all have the energy to Naruto run area 51, scientology buildings, get dressed up in costume to get shot by ICE, show up in the millions to protest in cities world wide yet I’m the crazy one for thinking maybe bite off a challenge that has a real goal. One that like is attainable. He’s at the hospital. Once proof exist that cat isn’t going back in the bag. So why such a push online from randoms who will convince people to go protest and get arrested but not have fun with this one.
I seriously believe online discourse is heavily influenced by bots that act like sheep herders
I think that you’ve got a lot of brainwashed people - MAGA/DSA come to mind. I don’t think that brainwashing just goes away, even if they diverge from the ‘mainstream’.
I, for one, think you’re right. Hell, you could probably just use a drone to skip all the dangerous bits. Either way, the action will have consequences - honestly it could be good or bad but hopefully good.
Imagine not showing up to your job for 43 days and even the governor is demanding that you do something, but you’re just like “nah” and nothing happens to you and you keep your job.
#nokings?
Well all you have to do is work hard enough to buy your own lawless reality. They’re living the American dream, I think?
The actual one, yeah.
Call for the special election anyway.
If he’s alive he’s gotta say something to stop it.
It’s fucking infuriating that they haven’t done this. If the parties were reversed, there would be no kid gloves.
The last decade has really shown us how much of our system of government is operated on the handshake agreement not to be complete and utter piece of shit assholes to the detriment of our society, and the Republican party has made it abundantly clear they are done with that agreement.
That’s what I’ve been saying: Call their bluff, by appointing a replacement, and make them sue the state to stop it. The only way to stop it is to demonstrate to the judge that the Turtle is still swimming, and if he is, then great, MAGA wins.
But if they can’t, MAGA’s got some ‘splainin’ to do.
Hello everyone it’s me Mitch. Im doing well. Thanks for all th
If he didn’t lockup at the end I might not have believed it.
Oh, man. He must have git got by Candlejack. I hate it when tha
thanks for the update we were worried about you be safe see you soon
Guys. Guys. I’ve got it. This is poetry.
Show us your death certificate
Why not replace McConnell anyways and let them prove otherwise?
Because Kentucky law says Beshear would have to call an election so a Republican would get in anyway. But that law might be unconstitutional from what I’ve read. But also is it a fight worth spending political capital and legal fees on when realistically it won’t change anything and there’ll be a new Republican Kentucky senator in 6 months?
I thought special elections were trending less MAGA these days.
Its still Kentucky.
Which has a Democrat for a governor. Senators are up for statewide elections just like governors.
Cross party governors are a very different thing than cross party senators. Massachusetts and California have both had Republican governors and at no point did that indicate the state was turning red. Cross party governors can be seen as outsiders that will pump the brakes on a single party establishment legislature.
Beshear has been in office through a couple Senate elections and they were still Republican blowouts.
Scott Brown though. That moment wasn’t altogether dissimilar to this one.
The reason they want to stop a Special Election, is in one of those Maise can run despite losing the Republican primary
He might not win, but he’d suck up enough votes from the other Republican to give it to a Dem
So I’ve heard this said before, but I don’t really get it.
Massie is a current Kentucky House representative, he lost his primary so his term will end in January.
McConnell’s seat is up for election in November, so his term also ends in January.
If a special election is held, it’s just to fill out his term until the end of January.
So in a scenario where a special election is held and Massie wins, he has to resign his House seat to take the Senate seat, but the term still ends in January.
Does that really change anything?
Yes, it changes the balance of the senate on the interim by adding a spoiler vote to the republican side. Which could make it harder for them to pass anti-voter laws between now and November
I guess it’s not nothing, but it also removes a vote from the US House.
I’m also not sure that in this hypothetical scenario Massie would be seated before the November election.
Per this article,
Beshear would have 30 days to call an election, and prospective candidates would then have 49 days to consider running and file.
Let’s assume Beshear calls for a special election on August 2nd, a day before the deadline. Plus 49 days brings you to September 20th, but that’s not when the election is held, that’s just when everyone must declare by.
Is there anything that clarifies that timeline?
And of course secondary to that, would the people of Kentucky vote for the independent Massie who can at best serve for a few months, or would you “double” vote for the person running in the standard election so they can start working immediately.
To be very clear, McConnell is a piece of shit, he’s probably dead or at the very least incapable of performing his duties and should be replaced. But I just don’t see a scenario where Massie actually is able to do anything.
Thought is it may give him incumbent advantage.
He can’t be the incumbent.
The race for McConnell’s seat is already underway and the Republican nominee already picked. Additionally all other deadlines to run as an Independent have passed.
Ok rereading this I think you missed the whole shenanigan the last few weeks. If McConnell is declared dead before Aug 3, then there is a special election/appointment (because that’s debated). If McConnell is declared dead on or after Aug 3, then there is a rule that kicks in that because it’s only 3 months until the midterms, then there is no special election/appointment and McConnell’s seat election gets rolled up together with the midterms.
The GOP is concerned that if McConnell is declared dead before Aug 3, then there will be an appointment/special election to replace McConnell before the midterms. That will make Massie/whoever wins/is appointed the “incumbent”. Yes that will be short lived because the midterm election will happen anyway. But they still don’t want it. Their thought process is that if Massie wins/is appointed, then it will give him an “incumbent” advantage in the midterms (in scare quotes if you want). So they are keeping McConnell on life support until Aug 3 so that it gets punted to the mdterms.
Republican is a Republican is a Republican. The corpse is probably still a better option.
The corpse is basically in a permanent “present” vote, or even less then that? Because it can delay quorum?
McConnell’s absence is not affecting quorum, but it is one less R vote for as long as he’s out.
I heard the bigger “issue” is the comitties that he is on may tip towards the Dems.
No better to just let someone incapable to do their job have it.
a Republican would get in anyway
That Republican might be Thomas Massie, though, which they REALLY want to avoid at any cost.
Hmm, now that’s an intriguing explanation.
Absolute best case scenario.
yes, because otherwise Beshear looks like a total do-nothing tool, and the dems REALLY need to prove to their voters that they actually do something, or people wont get off their couches again.
Wasting time and money of a guaranteed loss is WORSE than being a “do-nothing tool”. Why do people automatically assuming “doing” is automatically good? You can DO bad things.
If Democrats want to help elect Republicans because they’re too stupid to see that, we’re fucked anyway.
I thought Kentucky law said Beshear could appoint a replacement. And that’s why the GOPers are dragging their heels till August 3.
No. Kentucky law specifically says Beshear cannot appoint a replacement. But he can call a special election, which might have different candidates than the general election for his seat in November. The August 3 date is floating around as the deadline after which Beshear can’t call that election.
From what I understood, there are opposing laws in conflict with one another, one stating Beshear can appoint a replacement directly, and one stating he cannot. What he could do is go forward with an appointment, but then he will be caught up in legal proceedings anyway until the litigation on which law is binding can be made. So it will be a bit of a stalemate anyway.
I am likely to be incorrect in my understanding, but I remember reading that somewhere.
I think the state house passed the special election law, but didn’t change the constitution, which still says ‘appointment by governor’ - maybe for “state offices” though?
This is part of it. Constitutionally, the governor can only appoint for state offices, but there was historical precedent for the governor to appoint federal offices. And you are right that the state had passed some laws requiring a special election, but it also had some crazy length like 56-days required between the call and the election taking place to let all counties be notified. (As best I can remember reading. It’s all a bit of a mess.)
The more annoying thing is the two rulebooks. McConnell has tended to make up his own rules (and justify them with legalese) and ignore the ones he doesn’t like. Beshear is trying to play by the rules, and not recognizing the actual power shifts that have happened. And so, here we sit in sending-angry-letter mode for the time being.
Edit: Comment below has better details https://lemmy.world/comment/25004076
K
The Kentucky constitution says that. Which supersedes the law the Republicans rammed through, despite their lies to the contrary.
This is misinformed. This is what the Kentucky Constitution says.
Note that when it’s discussing appointments versus elections, it’s specifically talking about “city, town, county, district or State officers”.
When we get toward the end (not having mentioned the US House or the US Senate):
Vacancies in all offices for the State at large, or for districts larger than a county, shall be filled by appointment of the Governor; all other appointments shall be made as may be prescribed by law.
This leaves the KGA complete leeway to prescribe how replacements are appointed to the House and Senate, including holding an election first, functionally reducing the appointment to one choice.
Edit: And in case you think “offices for the State at large” is ambiguous enough to include the US House and US Senate, please see sections 69 to 96 of the Kentucky Constitution.
Plus new Senators need to be sworn in which I’m sure if a dem won the special election the republican controlled senate would just simply not swear them in.
Cool, let’s fuckin make them do that bullshit then.
I’m tired of going “well if we fight back, they’ll just fight back”. Like yeah, they are actively fighting us. We are in a fight. We’re being punched in the face. If we punch them, they will punch us. If we don’t punch them, they will still punch us.
I’m tired of being punched. I want to punch.
So is the logic that it’s best if the seat remain vacant and not risk a younger more alive republican to be elected in a special election and sworn in, where as if a democrat won the seat, they’d basically not be sworn in anyway and it’d be as if the seat were intentionally vacant?
Republicans are stalling so the governor can’t appoint an interim senator. There won’t be a chance either way for a younger more alive republican. The rest of this term is basically a wash for that seat.
Ohh I see, so the governor would be able to appoint an interim senator if the seat is vacant before Aug 3rd or whatever day, but unlikely that they’d ever get sworn in or do anything more productive than an empty seat?
And the election requires 63 days’ notice to the sheriffs in each county. And two elections a few weeks apart is going to annoy and confuse voters.
And (extrapolating the process for vacancies in primary elections) Beshear isn’t the one who formally recognizes McConnell’s absence for the purposes of the election; his Republican SoS is.
And if Beshear calls up an election without having properly verified only for McConnell to show real proof of life, the Democratic governor of a deeply red state with two more years left is going to have a scandal on his hands.
They’re basically asking Beshear to snatch a Democratic scandal from the jaws of a Republican one.
And if Beshear calls up an election without having properly verified only for McConnell to show real proof of life, the Democratic governor of a deeply red state with two more years left is going to have a scandal on his hands.
We need to crucify any Democrat that thinks this way. Oh, no, a scandal! Anything but that! Cowards, the lot of 'em. Never willing to take a chance on anything. No desire to throw something at the wall and see what sticks. Meanwhile Republicans try a dozen things hoping a quarter of them stick. This is why Republicans deliver for their base, while Democrats don’t do shit. Democrats are sniveling cowards.
That law is unconstitutional. The Kentucky constitution says the governor can just appoint a replacement.
As I pointed out in another comment: the Kentucky Constitution does not say this.
Any vacancy not covered (which in the Kentucky Constitution’s case are city, town, county, district, State) is filled as “prescribed by law”.
Look, I’m no expert in Kentucky law, but I do know you’re not representing this fully. The consensus among lawyers when interviewed on this matter in the press is that there’s legal ambiguity, and good case can be made for both points. I don’t understand it fully myself, but it’s obviously not as cut and dry as you’re pretending.
but I do know you’re not representing this fully.
All I’ve done is link to the relevant section of the Kentucky Constitution and (in my other comment) explain what it says. If you think any part of that section is ambiguous, if you think my interpretation is wrong in some specific way, if you’d like to cite some other relevant portion of the Kentucky Constitution I’m not considering, or especially if you’d like to provide any citation to the counterarguments of “lawyers interviewed on this matter”, I invite that.
But right now, I’m looking at the section of the Kentucky Constitution that provides for replacements of vacant offices, and not only do I see nothing that would bar the KGA from making this law, I see broad, affirmative, plain-English authority given to them to do exactly that.
I’m not trying to hoodwink you with half-truths; I know of literally no other information that would weigh on whether or not the Kentucky Constitution enables the General Assembly to prescribe the means of appointment. I don’t know what to do with “you’re not representing this fully” and a vague allusion to some alleged legal consensus when I’m representing it as fully as I know how.
I’m not sure how you haven’t head about this.
Beshear argued those laws may conflict with the Kentucky Constitution.
“It says I appoint all state officers when there’s a vacancy. The question is, does that apply to federal offices? Well, before there was ever a law in Kentucky on how this would work, multiple appointments were made by governors, assumingly under that provision,” he said.
Again, you’re clearly missing something here if the governor himself is claiming the power to fill vacancies by appointment.
[Beshear:] It says I appoint all state officers when there’s a vacancy. The question is, does that apply to federal offices? Well, before there was ever a law in Kentucky on how this would work, multiple appointments were made by governors, assumingly under that provision.
Until Beshear sues and wins (or at least until he files a suit), I’m going to be bold enough to challenge that. The wording clearly does not support what Beshear’s saying. First, I’ll note preliminarily that the section covers all elective offices*, so this is all we need to read from:
Except as otherwise provided in this Constitution, vacancies in all elective offices shall be filled by election or appointment, as follows:
* Notably, the “except as otherwise provided in this Constitution” is referring to the section on judicial vacancies. To my knowledge, these are the two sections that cover vacancies (show me I’m wrong if I am).
Next, we have a bunch of stuff covering city, town, county, district, and State offices. We can safely skip that (skip down if you think we can’t). This brings us to:
Vacancies in all offices for the State at large, or for districts larger than a county, shall be filled by appointment of the Governor; all other appointments shall be made as may be prescribed by law.
First, “State at large” is defined in the KY Constitution (sections 69–96) and does not mean federal offices. And then it says all other appointments shall be made as may be prescribed by law.
Microanalyzing that sentence in case you think there’s room for doubt: “as may be prescribed by law” means that the law can prescribe how the appointment is made but that a law doesn’t have to exist – where “may” is opposed to “shall”. I.e. if there is no law, which there doesn’t have to be, do whatever the fuck you want, but if there is one, follow it.
The obvious reason other governors were appointing their choices is because there was no law in place to say otherwise, and “may” meant there didn’t have to be one until Republicans decided to ratfuck Beshear.
Lastly, if he’s trying to assert that “state offices” cover federal ones, I mean, good luck, I guess. That’s a dumb, ad hoc argument that’s likely to fail given there’s literally a section that differentiates between State office and Federal office.
If the governor himself™ actually sues, then fair game, and we’ll see who wins. Otherwise, dead serious: I think he’s completely misreading the law and Republicans are correct on this – not morally, of course, but legally. I invite you to read the linked section and point out where I’m wrong.
TL;DR:
- The section covers all elected offices (with judicial being the exception).
- It spends a bunch of time covering city, town, county, district, and State offices (incl. a special excerpt for “State at large”, which per the KY Constitution is not federal).
- It then says “all other offices” may be prescribed by law.
I’m going to be ballsy enough to say this: if you can read this plain English and still take Beshear’s word on it, that’s fine, but it’s strictly an argument from authority. Andy Beshear’s word is not a legal consensus that there’s ambiguity. Please, read it for yourself and try to challenge me based on what it says.
(Didn’t downvote you, btw; I appreciate you linking this.)
because hes bluemaga like all the parties that arent maga in america, its just a performative dance
bluemaga
.ml
🙄
He’s passed on! This senator is no more! He has ceased to be! He’s expired and gone to meet his maker! He’s a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! If they hadn’t nailed him to the hospital bed he’d be pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now history! He’s off the twig! He’s kicked the bucket, he’s shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible!! HE IS AN EX-SENATOR!!
Nope! Chuck Testa.
His soul has left, but his shite remains
So we’re calling mildly worded letters an order now? He’s doing the same bullshit everyone else does. Every week that gets added to this he writes another letter. MF the deadline for the election is next week.
For context Senator Ben Lujan from New Mexico got BRAIN SURGERY after a STROKE. He returned to work after a little over a month. He took less time off than McConnell has had for what is allegedly only a minor case of Pneumonia.
Why does Trump get carté blanché but when it’s anyone else they just throw their hands in the air. Beshear needs to just hold the special election. Watch how fast they provide information.
Props to Senator Lujan. One month after any surgery is intense, let alone brain surgery.
