International fans visiting the US for the World Cup have become frustrated by the culture of having to tip servers, telling the BBC that tipping fatigue has set in.
Don’t worry American citizens are also confused by the expensive tipping culture in the US. I still maintain 15% for a good job, 10% for a mediocre job, 5% for anything below. Giving above 15% is just subsidizing the pay the employer should be giving. It’s a symptom of the fact that wages have stagnated for over 50 years. The pay that once supported someone and even a child is now far below the poverty line for even an individual. So instead of increasing pay to match what it once was many businesses have turned to aggressive tipping over just increasing the prices of their service / products.
15% for a good job, 10% for a mediocre job, 5% for anything below
I maybe make a 10% bonus if my department absolutely smashes sales numbers… i cant imagine getting 15% for doing my job normally (i consider doing a “good job” to be my normal output) or even getting 5% for doing “below” mediocre…
In fact, in most jobs, doing below mediocre work usually gets you fired, not bonuses
But also, i dont want to make this about “X type worker shouldnt make more than Y type worker”… servers should be paid whatever they get paid. Just dont put the burden on the customer… i dont care if they make more than me, or my CEO or whatever… just dont hassle me with the tipping decision.
a lot of that kind of “servers make more than X” discourse ends up belittling one worker with “unskilled labour” terminology. I dont believe in anything called unskilled labour.
Me as someone not from the US: why would you pay even 10% for anything below exceptional let alone a mediocre job? I am not going öt subsidise their employer.
Irl, culture. 15% is becoming an insult but is still normal or acceptable most places. If you ever want to return to a restaurant and not have your food tampered with its best to keep with some agreeable norm. At 10% I wouldn’t suggest being a frequent visitor anywhere for your health and wellbeing. To zoom out a little, there’s been no country I have lived in where the culture was 100% agreeable even to the majority. We’re all policed in some way or another by it.
Employers are giving you the option of cheating the employee and you are taking them up on it, claiming to be fighting the system, by cheating the employee.
Think about that, just because millions of cheating self interested half wits and tools and jerks agree with you, doesn’t mean you are right. You are cheating working people under a false pretense. If you don’t like tipping that much, don’t patronize establishments that use it.
I mostly decrease eating out which is arguably worse because now they get a 0% tip. If enough people avoid establishments that abuse tipping then the problem will solve itself.
But they don’t have to work for you for free if you don’t go, and you’re not actually subsidizing the restaurant if you’re not paying the menu price.
It’s for sure worse for the worker if you go, pay for your meal, and don’t tip them. The owner doesn’t care, he got his, and if the worker (who gets 0% in either scenario) quits another just takes their place tomorrow.
Maybe on an individual level but if no one goes there won’t be a restaurant or that job for long. Getting something is typically better than getting nothing.
Sure but “getting something” implies you’re tipping, I’m talking about people who still go and do not tip.
If you tip, then yeah, that is indeed better for the server. What’s better for the server overall is getting to the point where you can escape the industry but of course it has its ways of keeping you locked in (and not all of them are “tips or the lack thereof”), but in the short term:
It’s like you didn’t read my comments at all. I never said anything about not tipping at all outside of the circumstance where I never went to the restaurant to begin with. If I don’t go then the owner gets $0 and the server gets $0 since I didn’t use their service or purchase their product aka they both get 0%.
The scenario you’re bringing up really has nothing to do with anything I’ve said this entire time.
Ok, I’ll run it back for you. Give me a minute to edit this all together, I’m on mobile.
You said:
I mostly decrease eating out which is arguably worse because now they get a 0% tip. If enough people avoid establishments that abuse tipping then the problem will solve itself.
To which I replied:
But they don’t have to work for you for free of you don’t go
As in while you’re giving them 0% tip, you’re also giving them 0% work to do, by not going to the establishment.
The problem is those who give them 0% tip and 100% work to do.
Sure but that wasn’t what I ever argued for. Doing work for no pay outside of a volunteer position or something like family is a bad situation no matter what.
I tip what was once normal or even generous a few years ago and generally avoid places that push this behavior so the business owner and the employees get nothing from me. Mostly though if I eat out it’s at places where tipping isn’t customary.
The federal and state governments are cheating staff by allowing employers to pay slave-level wages of $2.xx/hr, if staff are paid ~$5/hr or more through tips.
This has gone on for a while so you’re right, maybe I shouldn’t visit some states in the USA anymore even after Don the Con is gone.
Maybe you shouldn’t if you’re going to cry about our culture (that gives young single women/moms a damn good paying job for little skill and time). Yea we don’t need more entitled trash in this country.
There is a world in which you don’t have to sacrifice restaurant jobs while still having a proper minimum wage and having some level of tip culture. I live there, it’s called Canada. Servers, cooks and cleaners can make good money from tips while still being paid at the very least $15Cdn/hr ($10.60 US) by the restauranteur, higher outside the Prairies. Tipped minimum wage exists in Quebec but it is $13.30Cdn/hr ($9.35 US). It doesn’t have to be a one or the other situation, you can call it entitlement, but I call replacing wages with tips shifting the blame.
Don’t worry American citizens are also confused by the expensive tipping culture in the US. I still maintain 15% for a good job, 10% for a mediocre job, 5% for anything below. Giving above 15% is just subsidizing the pay the employer should be giving. It’s a symptom of the fact that wages have stagnated for over 50 years. The pay that once supported someone and even a child is now far below the poverty line for even an individual. So instead of increasing pay to match what it once was many businesses have turned to aggressive tipping over just increasing the prices of their service / products.
I maybe make a 10% bonus if my department absolutely smashes sales numbers… i cant imagine getting 15% for doing my job normally (i consider doing a “good job” to be my normal output) or even getting 5% for doing “below” mediocre…
In fact, in most jobs, doing below mediocre work usually gets you fired, not bonuses
Yes, I’m aware. Workers in certain restaurants make quite a lot, even more than some engineers with degrees I know.
But also, i dont want to make this about “X type worker shouldnt make more than Y type worker”… servers should be paid whatever they get paid. Just dont put the burden on the customer… i dont care if they make more than me, or my CEO or whatever… just dont hassle me with the tipping decision.
a lot of that kind of “servers make more than X” discourse ends up belittling one worker with “unskilled labour” terminology. I dont believe in anything called unskilled labour.
Me as someone not from the US: why would you pay even 10% for anything below exceptional let alone a mediocre job? I am not going öt subsidise their employer.
Irl, culture. 15% is becoming an insult but is still normal or acceptable most places. If you ever want to return to a restaurant and not have your food tampered with its best to keep with some agreeable norm. At 10% I wouldn’t suggest being a frequent visitor anywhere for your health and wellbeing. To zoom out a little, there’s been no country I have lived in where the culture was 100% agreeable even to the majority. We’re all policed in some way or another by it.
Crazy culture if my options are pay extra or be poisoned.
If you piss off food staff anywhere on earth your food may be tampered with. Now what people consider to be rude can be unique in different places.
I tip generously at my local bar and in return they sometimes give me free stuff. Got a whole sandwich recently.
Employers are giving you the option of cheating the employee and you are taking them up on it, claiming to be fighting the system, by cheating the employee.
Think about that, just because millions of cheating self interested half wits and tools and jerks agree with you, doesn’t mean you are right. You are cheating working people under a false pretense. If you don’t like tipping that much, don’t patronize establishments that use it.
It’s legal ransom, you’re mad at the wrong person
Pot calling kettle black.
You’re entitled to a sit down restaurant or it’s “legal ransom”??
I mostly decrease eating out which is arguably worse because now they get a 0% tip. If enough people avoid establishments that abuse tipping then the problem will solve itself.
But they don’t have to work for you for free if you don’t go, and you’re not actually subsidizing the restaurant if you’re not paying the menu price.
It’s for sure worse for the worker if you go, pay for your meal, and don’t tip them. The owner doesn’t care, he got his, and if the worker (who gets 0% in either scenario) quits another just takes their place tomorrow.
Maybe on an individual level but if no one goes there won’t be a restaurant or that job for long. Getting something is typically better than getting nothing.
Not as a server. No it’s not.
So getting a 15% tip is worse than getting no business at all?
Sure but “getting something” implies you’re tipping, I’m talking about people who still go and do not tip.
If you tip, then yeah, that is indeed better for the server. What’s better for the server overall is getting to the point where you can escape the industry but of course it has its ways of keeping you locked in (and not all of them are “tips or the lack thereof”), but in the short term:
Tip and work>no tip no work>no tip but still work
It’s like you didn’t read my comments at all. I never said anything about not tipping at all outside of the circumstance where I never went to the restaurant to begin with. If I don’t go then the owner gets $0 and the server gets $0 since I didn’t use their service or purchase their product aka they both get 0%.
The scenario you’re bringing up really has nothing to do with anything I’ve said this entire time.
Ok, I’ll run it back for you. Give me a minute to edit this all together, I’m on mobile.
You said:
To which I replied:
As in while you’re giving them 0% tip, you’re also giving them 0% work to do, by not going to the establishment.
The problem is those who give them 0% tip and 100% work to do.
Sure but that wasn’t what I ever argued for. Doing work for no pay outside of a volunteer position or something like family is a bad situation no matter what.
Much better for them to work for free to serve you without pay? GTFO.
I tip what was once normal or even generous a few years ago and generally avoid places that push this behavior so the business owner and the employees get nothing from me. Mostly though if I eat out it’s at places where tipping isn’t customary.
The federal and state governments are cheating staff by allowing employers to pay slave-level wages of $2.xx/hr, if staff are paid ~$5/hr or more through tips.
This has gone on for a while so you’re right, maybe I shouldn’t visit some states in the USA anymore even after Don the Con is gone.
Maybe you shouldn’t if you’re going to cry about our culture (that gives young single women/moms a damn good paying job for little skill and time). Yea we don’t need more entitled trash in this country.
There is a world in which you don’t have to sacrifice restaurant jobs while still having a proper minimum wage and having some level of tip culture. I live there, it’s called Canada. Servers, cooks and cleaners can make good money from tips while still being paid at the very least $15Cdn/hr ($10.60 US) by the restauranteur, higher outside the Prairies. Tipped minimum wage exists in Quebec but it is $13.30Cdn/hr ($9.35 US). It doesn’t have to be a one or the other situation, you can call it entitlement, but I call replacing wages with tips shifting the blame.