Cant speak for the rest of the country but in my state there was a vote on this, and many workers actually supported it, but there was also a huge astroturfing campaign from restaurant owners claiming that tipped workers want to stay tipped when that wasn’t the case. They succeeded.
There’s a restaurant in seattle facing this issue right now. Walrus and the Carpenter. The staff is on strike because they want to keep tips as they feel they don’t make enough on salary. The restaurant just released their books and the owners arent making much more than a bartender at $90k. And that’s across all their restaurants.
It’s a complicated topic, complicated by different areas and laws, and complicated by both sides having good and bad points.
I absolutely believe that astroturfing happens on this topic. But natural opposition does as well.
Having worked in food service, and having many friends who do, I don’t know a single person who would rather keep tips. The majority have openly talked shit about tipping. Everyone I know hates tipping except the management that benefits from it.
I live in a very HCOL area and that probably has more to do with attitudes on tipping anything. Wait staff in this area can easily earn wages that are much, much higher than minimum wage with tips.
For example, the state in the US I live in does not have a lower base pay for wait staff. They’re making at minimum $17.13 an hour before tips.
Plus then there’s the variance of the individual. If you’re naturally good with people, you’re likely to get tipped better. If you’re a pretty young girl, you’ll probably make decent money even if you’re not good with people, etc.
Hard agree. It’s a shitty practice with shitty origins that allows companies to pay incredibly low wages and justify it with the idea that the employees should make up the difference with a nebulous performance-based appeal to customers’ sense of charity.
Cool. That restaurant, also being in a HCOL, could afford to pay those people a living wage without tips. You’re advocating for them to not have to do that.
Holy fuck I’ve got a friend that will die on the hill that you (customer) should tip, and generously every time. Given his experience with it, I agree to a point, but only because he willingly chose to dig heels into that job for better or for worse.
I do tip because I feel it’s earned in most cases. I just don’t agree with being over the top about it for sure. Part of that is his personality too… And the more I think about it; fuck that guy.
But the people who directly benefit will still fight you on it.
Is that still true? Even back when I has tipped workers as peers, their attitudes were mixed. If you have any polling data, that would be appreciated – but, I don’t have any data either, just vague memories.
I’m admittedly talking from a personal experience living in a HCOL area that does not have a lower wage for wait staff. Wait staff are paid $17.13 at minimum here and that’s before tips.
People also choose individual lines at the cash registers rather than one shared line that splits into the next available opening. It doesn’t matter that it’s better on average, human intuition is really bad at statistics.
I’d much prefer a stable, livable wage over recieving tips.
The problem is that no one is making a livable wage. At least as a server, there’s (on average) a pretty direct correlation between skill & effort and your income, so a decent server is probably making enough to live on. If you’re working retail, you’re barely making enough to survive on even as a low level manager.
You ask wait staff if they prefer a stable wage or receiving tips. The overwhelming majority of them will want to keep tips.
It would be better if we eliminated tips overall and paid fair wages. But the people who directly benefit will still fight you on it.
Cant speak for the rest of the country but in my state there was a vote on this, and many workers actually supported it, but there was also a huge astroturfing campaign from restaurant owners claiming that tipped workers want to stay tipped when that wasn’t the case. They succeeded.
I’m sure there’s some of that as well.
There’s a restaurant in seattle facing this issue right now. Walrus and the Carpenter. The staff is on strike because they want to keep tips as they feel they don’t make enough on salary. The restaurant just released their books and the owners arent making much more than a bartender at $90k. And that’s across all their restaurants.
It’s a complicated topic, complicated by different areas and laws, and complicated by both sides having good and bad points.
I absolutely believe that astroturfing happens on this topic. But natural opposition does as well.
Having worked in food service, and having many friends who do, I don’t know a single person who would rather keep tips. The majority have openly talked shit about tipping. Everyone I know hates tipping except the management that benefits from it.
I live in a very HCOL area and that probably has more to do with attitudes on tipping anything. Wait staff in this area can easily earn wages that are much, much higher than minimum wage with tips.
For example, the state in the US I live in does not have a lower base pay for wait staff. They’re making at minimum $17.13 an hour before tips.
And that’s why. For a lot of states they’re making like $2.75 before tips.
Plus, it’s also very relative to what exactly you are doing. A decent bartender can pull like $200+ a night on a weekend in tips.
Yep which complicates the conversation because all wait staff aren’t the same.
So you have bartenders in big cities scoffing at the idea of eliminating tips while there’s waiters in small diners barely surviving on minimum wage.
Plus then there’s the variance of the individual. If you’re naturally good with people, you’re likely to get tipped better. If you’re a pretty young girl, you’ll probably make decent money even if you’re not good with people, etc.
It’s such a complicated situation to talk about.
Which is why I think tipping should be eliminated.
Hard agree. It’s a shitty practice with shitty origins that allows companies to pay incredibly low wages and justify it with the idea that the employees should make up the difference with a nebulous performance-based appeal to customers’ sense of charity.
Cool. That restaurant, also being in a HCOL, could afford to pay those people a living wage without tips. You’re advocating for them to not have to do that.
Read more of my comments. I support fair, living wages and eliminating tipping.
Holy fuck I’ve got a friend that will die on the hill that you (customer) should tip, and generously every time. Given his experience with it, I agree to a point, but only because he willingly chose to dig heels into that job for better or for worse. I do tip because I feel it’s earned in most cases. I just don’t agree with being over the top about it for sure. Part of that is his personality too… And the more I think about it; fuck that guy.
Is that still true? Even back when I has tipped workers as peers, their attitudes were mixed. If you have any polling data, that would be appreciated – but, I don’t have any data either, just vague memories.
I’m admittedly talking from a personal experience living in a HCOL area that does not have a lower wage for wait staff. Wait staff are paid $17.13 at minimum here and that’s before tips.
So it is area dependent. Probably.
When I had tipped peers, wait staff got $2.15/hr + tips. It certainly changes the calculus.
People also choose individual lines at the cash registers rather than one shared line that splits into the next available opening. It doesn’t matter that it’s better on average, human intuition is really bad at statistics.
I’d much prefer a stable, livable wage over recieving tips.
The problem is that no one is making a livable wage. At least as a server, there’s (on average) a pretty direct correlation between skill & effort and your income, so a decent server is probably making enough to live on. If you’re working retail, you’re barely making enough to survive on even as a low level manager.
That’s what I meant by fair wages.
I completely agree.