It certainly depends on what you’re actually paying, yes. It’s very unlikely that your deductible expenses will be greater than the standard deduction. But, it is certainly possible under certain (rare) conditions.
Rent alone here is higher than the basic personal amount, let alone any other necessities. And I’m in one of the cheapest cities in Canada for rental housing.
Which is to say, almost every single tax paying person in the entire country would be getting more than the basic personal amount (Canada’s version of the standard deduction in the US) if we were allowed to claim basic necessities. And not by a small amount.
All you are telling me is that “rent” isn’t a deductible expense.
None of that changes the fact that if you have more deductible expenses than the standard deduction, you can claim greater than the standard deduction.
The standard deduction is ~$16,000 for a single person. Medical expenses are deductible. If they spend $32,000 in a hospital stay, they would be better off itemizing the whole deduction rather than taking only the standard deduction.
Of course, they aren’t obligated to itemize. They could just take the standard deduction and be done with it. That choice is available to them, foolish as it is.
Educational expenses are deductible. They can choose to spend much more than $16000 on school expenses, claiming much more than the standard deduction.
Again, what should and should not qualify as deductible, and the size of the standard deduction are completely separate questions.
None of that changes the fact that if you have more deductible expenses than the standard deduction, you can claim greater than the standard deduction.
You are missing the point that for a business everything is a deduction and for an individual almost nothing counts as an itemized deduction.
It is a lie to say “you could itemize” when the IRS specifically does not allow W2 employees to itemize rent, transportation, food, and entertainment.
It is a lie to say “you could itemize” when the IRS specifically does not allow W2 employees to itemize rent, transportation, food, and entertainment.
You’re getting hung up on the categories. You don’t have to be just a W2 worker for someone else’s business. You can also be a contractor: you can be a business yourself. No, you can’t deduct that part of your subsistence you use for W2 employment or personal use. But, you can put yourself on the clock for your own business, and that business can deduct everything that any other business can do.
If you’re not deducting that part of your home, utilities, vehicles, electronics, tools, and equipment that you use for various business purposes, you’re doing something very wrong.
Your business doesn’t have to actually turn a profit. Legally, you have to try to turn some kind of profit, but you don’t have to actually succeed. 30% of home-based businesses never do.
“If you’re not deducting that part of your home, utilities, vehicles, electronics, tools, and equipment that you use for various business purposes, you’re doing something very wrong.”
Ok, but why should it have to be for business purposes to be deductible? Why does a landlord get to deduct the same exact expenses a private homeowner cannot?
I haven’t addressed that issue. I’ve addressed the fairness issue. If you can present your expenses as business expenses, you should. If the only reason you can’t is because you aren’t presenting yourself as a business, present yourself as a business and take the deductions.
That’s the OP argument! You can’t say, employee taxes aren’t unfair, just be an employer. It’s ridiculous! You have only restated the OP’s claim: businesses can deduct virtually everything and employees can deduct virtually nothing.
Forget about all of your W2 earnings for a moment. Forget about the 8.5 hours a day you spend working for someone else. Forget about your bi-weekly paycheck. None of that stuff matters here, or to the IRS.
Forget all of that, hold an annual garage sale.
Now, you’re a business. You get to deduct the poster board you purchase advertising your sale. You get to deduct the balloons and price stickers.
You also get to deduct that part of your rent or mortgage that you spend on the garage where you keep your inventory. That is now your “warehouse”, which is part of your (non-employment) business. How about your attic? The attic is part of your home. You pay mortgage/rent/taxes on that part of your home right along with every other part. I doubt you use it for anything but storage anyway. Put the crap in your attic on your lawn with a price tag once a year, and you get to deduct the part of your housing payment that goes toward your attic.
You get to deduct the cost of acquiring your inventory. That is also a business expense.
Spend an afternoon in a lawnchair while your neighbors look through your junkinventory, and you get to claim thousands of dollars in business expenses.
If you’re worried the IRS might take issue with you if you only do this once a year, you can put up an ebay, etsy, craigslist, or marketplace listing, and it becomes a year-round operation. You are now an online retailer, and your annual garage sale is just a clearance sale for that business. If you’re still not sure, you can file paperwork with the state to be able to collect sales tax (and deduct the filing fee as a business expense).
You can’t say, employee taxes aren’t unfair, just be an employer. It’s ridiculous!
I absolutely can, and it’s not ridiculous at all. The problem you’re having here is that you think you need to be Walmart in order to call yourself a business. You don’t. You think you need to generate a profit to be a business. You don’t. (You do need to try to generate a profit. But, very few businesses are actually able to successfully generate a profit, and yours doesn’t need to be successful either. “Trying” is enough.) I am quite confident that many of the things you do in your day-to-day life can already be categorized as “business”, or could be considered a business with slight tweaks. You are legally entitled to count expenditures on those activities as deductible business expenses.
You keep trying to change the argument from the lack of fairness in tax policy to a discussion of how you can dodge taxes by becoming a business.
Yes by becoming a business you can dodge taxes like other businesses. That’s not the argument.
OP: “rent is high”
YOU: “no its not, just buy a house”
OP: “that’s not what I said”
YOU: “You’re not listening, here are tips to buy a house cheaply.”
You buying a house cheap doesn’t change that the OP said rent is high.
Becoming a business doesn’t change the tax policy allows deductions for businesses that employees don’t get.
And your “garage sale tip” is bullshit of the highest order. If you’ve done it, you are lucky you haven’t been audited. You can’t deduct on a loss every year without being classified as a hobby. If you are holding a garage sale, you aren’t earning a profit- that’s why its not taxable. You selling a 20 year old $10 beanie baby for 25 cents is a loss and you don’t have to pay taxes on that 25 cents.
And your “garage sale tip” is bullshit of the highest order.
I completely agree. It is bullshit of the highest order. There is a special IRS term for “bullshit of the highest order”. That term is “business”.
If you’ve done it, you are lucky you haven’t been audited.
If I had done that, and I was audited, and the IRS had a problem with it. I’d owe what I would have owed anyway. Maybe with a small penalty.
You can’t deduct on a loss every year without being classified as a hobby.
How many companies do you need me to name, and how many years do they need to show losses? You certainly can show several consecutive years of losses. You’d be hard pressed to find a company that hasn’t shown many consecutive years of losses. Lack of profit doesn’t mean a business is unsuccessful. It means they paid out their vendors and workers and creditors a bit more than they brought in.
And why do you assume you will always show losses? Why do you assume you won’t find a profitable niche in the process? The only requirement the IRS needs to classify you as a business is the fact that you don’t make an assumption like that. That assumption is what makes it a hobby. Don’t make it, and you’re a business.
We’re literally talking about corporations being “people” but able to deduct things that people can’t. If corporations are people, and they can deduct rent (they can) why can’t everyone else.
You’ve completely lost the plot mate. You can’t say THE LITERAL QUESTION WE ARE TALKING ABOUT is a separate question, wtf lol
A large part of my house is used exclusively for business purposes. I deduct that part.
I don’t do this myself, but businesses are allowed to compensate workers with, in part, housing. Your home-based business could deduct the housing it provides to workers, including yourself.
It certainly depends on what you’re actually paying, yes. It’s very unlikely that your deductible expenses will be greater than the standard deduction. But, it is certainly possible under certain (rare) conditions.
Rent alone here is higher than the basic personal amount, let alone any other necessities. And I’m in one of the cheapest cities in Canada for rental housing.
Which is to say, almost every single tax paying person in the entire country would be getting more than the basic personal amount (Canada’s version of the standard deduction in the US) if we were allowed to claim basic necessities. And not by a small amount.
All you are telling me is that “rent” isn’t a deductible expense.
None of that changes the fact that if you have more deductible expenses than the standard deduction, you can claim greater than the standard deduction.
The standard deduction is ~$16,000 for a single person. Medical expenses are deductible. If they spend $32,000 in a hospital stay, they would be better off itemizing the whole deduction rather than taking only the standard deduction.
Of course, they aren’t obligated to itemize. They could just take the standard deduction and be done with it. That choice is available to them, foolish as it is.
Educational expenses are deductible. They can choose to spend much more than $16000 on school expenses, claiming much more than the standard deduction.
Again, what should and should not qualify as deductible, and the size of the standard deduction are completely separate questions.
You are missing the point that for a business everything is a deduction and for an individual almost nothing counts as an itemized deduction.
It is a lie to say “you could itemize” when the IRS specifically does not allow W2 employees to itemize rent, transportation, food, and entertainment.
You’re getting hung up on the categories. You don’t have to be just a W2 worker for someone else’s business. You can also be a contractor: you can be a business yourself. No, you can’t deduct that part of your subsistence you use for W2 employment or personal use. But, you can put yourself on the clock for your own business, and that business can deduct everything that any other business can do.
If you’re not deducting that part of your home, utilities, vehicles, electronics, tools, and equipment that you use for various business purposes, you’re doing something very wrong.
Your business doesn’t have to actually turn a profit. Legally, you have to try to turn some kind of profit, but you don’t have to actually succeed. 30% of home-based businesses never do.
“If you’re not deducting that part of your home, utilities, vehicles, electronics, tools, and equipment that you use for various business purposes, you’re doing something very wrong.”
Ok, but why should it have to be for business purposes to be deductible? Why does a landlord get to deduct the same exact expenses a private homeowner cannot?
I haven’t addressed that issue. I’ve addressed the fairness issue. If you can present your expenses as business expenses, you should. If the only reason you can’t is because you aren’t presenting yourself as a business, present yourself as a business and take the deductions.
That’s the OP argument! You can’t say, employee taxes aren’t unfair, just be an employer. It’s ridiculous! You have only restated the OP’s claim: businesses can deduct virtually everything and employees can deduct virtually nothing.
Sigh.
Forget about all of your W2 earnings for a moment. Forget about the 8.5 hours a day you spend working for someone else. Forget about your bi-weekly paycheck. None of that stuff matters here, or to the IRS.
Forget all of that, hold an annual garage sale.
Now, you’re a business. You get to deduct the poster board you purchase advertising your sale. You get to deduct the balloons and price stickers.
You also get to deduct that part of your rent or mortgage that you spend on the garage where you keep your inventory. That is now your “warehouse”, which is part of your (non-employment) business. How about your attic? The attic is part of your home. You pay mortgage/rent/taxes on that part of your home right along with every other part. I doubt you use it for anything but storage anyway. Put the crap in your attic on your lawn with a price tag once a year, and you get to deduct the part of your housing payment that goes toward your attic.
You get to deduct the cost of acquiring your inventory. That is also a business expense.
Spend an afternoon in a lawnchair while your neighbors look through your
junkinventory, and you get to claim thousands of dollars in business expenses.If you’re worried the IRS might take issue with you if you only do this once a year, you can put up an ebay, etsy, craigslist, or marketplace listing, and it becomes a year-round operation. You are now an online retailer, and your annual garage sale is just a clearance sale for that business. If you’re still not sure, you can file paperwork with the state to be able to collect sales tax (and deduct the filing fee as a business expense).
I absolutely can, and it’s not ridiculous at all. The problem you’re having here is that you think you need to be Walmart in order to call yourself a business. You don’t. You think you need to generate a profit to be a business. You don’t. (You do need to try to generate a profit. But, very few businesses are actually able to successfully generate a profit, and yours doesn’t need to be successful either. “Trying” is enough.) I am quite confident that many of the things you do in your day-to-day life can already be categorized as “business”, or could be considered a business with slight tweaks. You are legally entitled to count expenditures on those activities as deductible business expenses.
You keep trying to change the argument from the lack of fairness in tax policy to a discussion of how you can dodge taxes by becoming a business.
Yes by becoming a business you can dodge taxes like other businesses. That’s not the argument.
OP: “rent is high” YOU: “no its not, just buy a house” OP: “that’s not what I said” YOU: “You’re not listening, here are tips to buy a house cheaply.”
You buying a house cheap doesn’t change that the OP said rent is high. Becoming a business doesn’t change the tax policy allows deductions for businesses that employees don’t get.
And your “garage sale tip” is bullshit of the highest order. If you’ve done it, you are lucky you haven’t been audited. You can’t deduct on a loss every year without being classified as a hobby. If you are holding a garage sale, you aren’t earning a profit- that’s why its not taxable. You selling a 20 year old $10 beanie baby for 25 cents is a loss and you don’t have to pay taxes on that 25 cents.
I completely agree. It is bullshit of the highest order. There is a special IRS term for “bullshit of the highest order”. That term is “business”.
If I had done that, and I was audited, and the IRS had a problem with it. I’d owe what I would have owed anyway. Maybe with a small penalty.
How many companies do you need me to name, and how many years do they need to show losses? You certainly can show several consecutive years of losses. You’d be hard pressed to find a company that hasn’t shown many consecutive years of losses. Lack of profit doesn’t mean a business is unsuccessful. It means they paid out their vendors and workers and creditors a bit more than they brought in.
And why do you assume you will always show losses? Why do you assume you won’t find a profitable niche in the process? The only requirement the IRS needs to classify you as a business is the fact that you don’t make an assumption like that. That assumption is what makes it a hobby. Don’t make it, and you’re a business.
We’re literally talking about corporations being “people” but able to deduct things that people can’t. If corporations are people, and they can deduct rent (they can) why can’t everyone else.
You’ve completely lost the plot mate. You can’t say THE LITERAL QUESTION WE ARE TALKING ABOUT is a separate question, wtf lol
A large part of my house is used exclusively for business purposes. I deduct that part.
I don’t do this myself, but businesses are allowed to compensate workers with, in part, housing. Your home-based business could deduct the housing it provides to workers, including yourself.