Ones that come to mind for me are Vegas, Toronto, Paris
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Salt Lake City, Utah. Utterly gorgeous, but strongly reconsider moving there if you aren’t a Mormon. The whole valley/arguably state has a constant fog of oppressively bad juju looming over it, despite being truly breathtaking.
Relevant but I’m currently going down this Bricks & Minifigs vs Ben rabbit hole and wow these mormons are creepy as fuck.
Their entire history is insanely, deeply fucked in ways most people don’t realize. Dating back to the very beginning.
Do you have any recommended reading?
So, so much. My very long comment got wiped before I could finish–I was trying to find an old 1800s newspaper account from the Library of Congress, so consider yourself lucky I’m relegated to a phone keyboard. I’m working on a book myself, so I’ve got huuuuuundreds of sources, but many of them are historic and hard to share conveniently. For a quick variety:
Fifteen Years Among the Mormons by Mary Ettie V. Smith (1860) is one of the most breathtaking page-turners I’ve ever read. Like many works that touch on history Mormons don’t like, they’ve been very successful at whitewashing this to a mere “unfair anti-Mormon polemic,” but…eh. Very complicated, but it really has the ring of truth to me compared to other similar sources. That’s the source of the screenshot re: SLC.
Exposé of Polygamy in Utah: A Lady’s Life among the Mormons by Fanny Stenhouse (1872) is a favorite. She had a sharp wit.
No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie (1945) was a nuclear bomb of a book.
In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith (1997) goes into the MINIMUM 33 girls and women Smith “celestially wed,” including minors, mother-daughter pairs, etc…
For a much more accessible option, look up Mormon Stories on YouTube. The church recently sued them, so you know they’re good. And lest you sneeze at that, the Mormons successfully forced fucking WIKILEAKS to take down one of the church’s internal instruction manuals (it’s copyrighted material of the literal legal corporation that is the Mormon church). They’ve got crazy money, crazy connections. You’ve no idea.
Look up what was the first Sherlock Holmes book (Part 2) and ask yourself why captive Mormon women became such a theme then. In the UK!? Yup. And so much more.
Did you know that the Mormon church owns 2% of the landmass of Florida? Like right now?
I’m just trying to say: it’s a deeeeep fucking rabbit hole.
Extremely interesting, thank you for the recommendations!
I just discovered this yesterday and went all the way down that rabbit hole. Holy moly they are really trying to beat down on the guy trying to do the right thing. That police department is NASTY.
It looks like he has some good lawyers coming his way though. Looking forward to the second part of the civil rights lawyer’s video (and part three of his own).
Seems like it’s a really deep rabbit hole!
I lived in Provo for 2 years. I’d still be there if not for the Mormons.
I’ve heard that, in terms of geography and natural scenery, Salt Lake City is the city people want when they think they want Denver.
What do you get instead with actual Denver?
High plains just before the mountains. SLC is more in the mountains
Worst city on earth.
Look, I’m just going to say it: I cried the first time I visited, okay? It was that beautiful. Then I immediately moved there. Whoops. Worth it(???) I’m still not sure. Those 5-6 years definitely took a piece of me.
The first time I went to Paris it was in late November and freezing rain was falling. There was a transportation strike and only one subway line was running. I got drenched and caught double-pneumonia on my first day there and was very sick the entire week I was there.
Still had a better time there than SLC.
Definitely SLC. Hands down.
Shit is like walking through the looking glass.
And not in the cool, drug-induced way. Not like that at all.
They have a program that marches the homeless around the city on rotation to keep them out of sight.
There’s a disturbing degree of popular support and blissful ignorance
Yes! I’ve been there several times, and I hate to be the type of person that describes it as having bad vibes, but it always feels weird
Phoenix. Don’t ever make the mistake of moving there or you’ll have a hard time leaving. It’s the closest thing to purgatory I’ve ever experienced. I certainly aged, but I don’t think I matured a day while I was there.
How so? Is it the people there?
It’s the world’s biggest parking lot. Every tree is artificial unless it’s a cactus. The few places you can climb give you a great view of said parking lot. It’s 40 miles wide and can take over an hour to cross, yet bizarrely, everywhere you need to be is 30 minutes away. Some street intersections require multiple passes of building prior knowledge to safely traverse.
I seen my first 8 years there riding the public transport there and it’s an entirely separate hell. Everything goes from 30 minutes away to anywhere from an hour to 90 or more. I would say about 6 months of my time spent there must have been traveling.
And never to go anywhere actually interesting. Everything is one or two floors unless it’s an office building you’ll likely never have the lifestyle to be a part of unless it’s a temp gig.
They are neighborhoods so similar, miles apart from each other that I almost knocked on the wrong friend’s door before I realized I had driven to the wrong place.
I could go on…
That sounds fucking awful my guy. I live in Red Deer Alberta, and it has its faults but I enjoy jogging and skateboarding and walking my dog and the trails here are amazing.
i mean its basically a desert, so you arnt far off. family guy did a episode where arizona(i think one of the city) is where people got o become DUMB as rocks, they used to cure peters genius level intellect.
Council Bluffs, IA. I once had family there and there’s a story in our family. One of them had a radio of some sort that works on trucker frequencies and he overheard a conversation between trucker CBs that went something like:
- “I’ve never been to Council Bluffs before. What’s it like?”
- “Well, if the earth needed an enema, Bluffs is where they’d put the tube.”
It used to be a railroad town, but the railroad pulled out and left economic carnage in its wake. Meanwhile, Omaha, just across the river, is comparatively very affluent with skilled jobs in tech, so Bluffs is kindof “the slums” (casualties of the worst end of capitalism.) and Omaha is all gentrified and hip, which rubs salt in the wound, and those who are still in Bluffs are the ones who lacked the wherewithal (luck, credit (social, financial, or otherwise), mental health, etc) to move to Omaha. Last time I was in Bluffs (and that was even before I knew the rail background story) it really felt like there was just a pall over the whole place. The strangers you saw at the grocery store or whatever just seemed “down and out” in an undefinable way. The local government seems some combination of corrupt and incompetent and the few folks I know of who still live in Bluffs there are racists and MAGA nuts and grifters and (I say this with love) deeply mentally ill. It’s a disturbingly strange and depressing place.
I’m not sure I’d describe it as “bad vibes”, but Detroit has always struck me as charmingly postapocalyptic. It’s the only place I’ve ever seen fires in barrels in the middle of streets in real life.
oh that sounds lovely, I’m adding Detroit to the list
Dubai is the most liminal fucking city in the world. If a hospital corridor was a city, it would be Dubai.
The opposite of this would be Hanoi. That’s a city where each street feels like a living, breathing animal.
As someone who grew up and lived in Dubai in the 80s to the late 2000s I cannot find fault in your assessment.
I never want to go back to St Louis.
This. Or anywhere near Missouri, for that matter.
Never seen so many billboards for sex shops and strip clubs as driving through missoura…
Also true. I guess Columbia was ok
If you think St. Louis is bad (which it is), stay well away from East St. Louis
I went to St Louis the day before the eclipse in 2017. It was a spur of the moment decision, literally decided to go that morning. My friend suggested we spend the night in a Walmart parking lot and the nearest one was on the other side of the river.
Driving through the area in the morning, I wondered how we survived the night. Holy shit. Half the city is abandoned, there’s guys with AKs sitting in their porches, and the only other businesses were gun stores and pawn shops.
was there recently, goddamn despressing
Sounds like a great name for a song.
Fucking Dallas, TX. Of all the major cities in North America, Dallas is the most devoid of culture. It is a city inhabited by cars, not people. If you took the average of all North American cities, it would be Dallas, but not in a way that derives any value from the cities included in the average. If you asked an LLM to generate an American metroplex, you would get a low-resolution, but otherwise one-to-one map of Dallas and Ft. Worth. Dallas is the backrooms except with a clear view of the sky.
Dallas is Night City without the cool tech or culture, just the crushing capitalism and roads…
Edit: I wrote this on a base level comment but I’m going to put it here too:
Dallas is a soulless corpse where you can’t walk anywhere due to highways, but it you use the highways then it’s like trying to dodge clicking on sketchy ads trying to trick you to click them on PC, except the ads are toll roads. Also every car is trying to kill you. I tried to go to a music show once. It was in a really run down part of town with sketchy people standing around staring at us. There was no signage. We weren’t even sure we were in the right place and no one looked friendly so we just left, and got hit by more surprise tolls on the way back. You can’t leave your house there without having to pay money. It is the most miserable place I’ve ever been.
Houston.
Having lived a number of years there, where in Houston you are can feel like entirely different cities (and, in terms of distance, probably should be).
Coeur d’Alene, Idaho but really just the whole panhandle
Wait what? There is a Cœur D’Alene in Idaho?
Now I’m curious and wonder how you guys try to pronounce that very French name (with a strong R at the end of cœur)
Edit: I watched some videos and most of the people seemed to say “core da lane” with a different emphasis on lane. And one fella saying “coor d’alane”
In French it’s Coeur like beurre, and Alène like À laine. Anyway, it’s cool to have a place named “heart of” something
Core da lane
I’m from the south so I dunno if this is true for locals there, but I say it almost like the beer coors light without the -s so “coo-ER de lean”? I think, it’s had to type that one out how I say it… and now I’ve said it too many times to remember how I normally say it
Coeur like beurre
Since I’m not sure how many anglophones know how to pronounce beurre, it sounds like “bear” but the r sound is made with the uvula and rolls off into the distance.
I was speaking with a friend yesterday who had no idea French had a guttural R, so I don’t think it’s common knowledge. The œ also trips them up
I’d love to hear more about Why, because the panhandle is quite picturesque
The Idaho panhandle has a reputation for being full of racists. It was home to the aryan nations neo-nazi compound until the year 2000. The neo-nazi scene has become a bit more scattered since then, but there are still more than a dozen hate groups operating in the area.
That said, it’s important to note that most of the people who live there are not neo-nazis and are proud to oppose them.
Disagree. That area is gorgeous.
The scenery is wonderful but the locals give me a “we don’t take too kindly to your kind around here vibe” where “your kind” essentially means any outsiders but has a lot of other potential implications depending on what about you brought on that conclusion in their minds
Sure, but it’s easy to enjoy the scenery and not interact much with the people. The environment itself gives great vibes, not creepy ones.
The top post in this thread specifically calls out Salt Lake City as being gorgeous but the Mormons ruined it with their bad vibes? Why doesn’t that apply to Idaho?
IME, Brussels is truly awful. Grey, ugly, depressing and decaying.
I love Belgium but Brussels is alarmingly lame
I happened to be there during the Ommegang and got tickets. It was awesome. That square is the only bit I enjoyed about Brussels, though. And the fries, naturally.
I hated Brussels… it was so depressing. I took the high-speed train from Amsterdam… my introduction to the city was stepping into Midi Station, which smelled like a urinal. The sheer number of homeless people was shocking. No one cared about them either, they were sat on the ground surrounded by garbage 💔
It’s like Marseille without the sun and friendly Southern vibes, that’s what it reminds me of, especially the Midi area. I recall walking nearby and there’s like a tunnel where the tram goes by, and people had set up tents and impromptu “restaurants” in it. What a mess. But my brother and his lady just went to Bruges and they said it was beautiful so it’s not like the whole of Belgium is as ugly. 🙏
There is one nice square with the Leonidas place and that’s it. You don’t need more than a few hours there.
Hagen, NRW.
In front of the train station, 3 casinos. Not shiny ones but rancid slot machine cellars.
Smashed door of the job centre.- San Pedro Sula, Honduras
- Kingston, Jamaica
- Salvador de Bahia, Brazil
- Calgary, Canada
- Miami, USA
- Naples, Italy
- Abu Dhabi, UAE
- Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Why Calgary? One of the nicest large cities I’ve spent time in.
Stampede is bad energy though.
What about Deadmonton, especially the last 10 years? It’s like a giant liminal space
It’s the people. Calgary is a beautiful city (but built in a very exposed flood plain), but the people are really ugly (on the inside).
In comparison, Edmonton looks ugly on the outside, but the people are beautiful (on the inside).
Someone explained it to me once and it made a lot of sense.
Calgary = White collar, free lunch
Edmonton = Blue collar, load the truck.Calgary has no soul, and Stampede is a straight-up alcohol-fueled rape-fest.
I lived in Calgary while I went to college and I made so many friends with zero effort. I thought that the huge transient population was kind of cool. I live on vancouver island now and connecting with people here is almost impossible by comparison
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I’m in Victoria, too. 8 years here and not much of a friend group even with such like minded people at work.
I feel like Victoria is maybe the best city in all of NA but man the vibes here are strange. Go out west into the woods and it just gets weirder. I have stories and those woods breathe evil I swear.
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My gf moved here less than a year ago from mainland and she can’t believe how strange and different people are on the island compared. There’s also that weird group of people who never seem to leave victoria and they have such an incredibly narrow minded view of everything. My manager at work was born in victoria and the furthest place he’s been on the island is point no point. Wtf.
Strange. I lived in both Calgary and Edmonton and didn’t notice much of a difference in how people treated me between the two. I worked as a carpenter in both places.
Salvador may be dangerous and dirty and the hills incredibly steep, but at least
I also hate Miami so I’ll trust your judgement on the others, but to be fair I never had any positive expectations about UAE or Saudi.
Salvador may be dangerous and dirty and the hills incredibly steep, but at least
But at least what?
Having lived there for almost a decade: It’s hot all year round, which sounds like a good thing but it gets tiresome very quickly. It is very dangerous and dirty, but it is pretty and the food is one of the best I’ve tried in my life, although I think it’s not for everyone.
Why Miami, I know the florida man stories but I assumed that happens more in the north and areas outside the main city ?
I see no one here has ever had to pit stop in Gary Indiana. Or pass through Flint?
Harrisonburg PA surprised me a bit as well. Super industrial parts were Flint esq from what I remember and the vibe downtown felt just off.
I have had no issues in Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, or Cleveland. I think Cleveland gets a bad rap but I haven’t spent more than a few days there.
When you were in Cleveland, did you see both of their buildings?
I just watched that yesterday haha. Yeah ad.
…Toronto? Wtf is wrong with Toronto
Spent 30 odd years in TO.
Theres a lot of toxicity there. Been punched in the head, throat, kicked in the back (lol), spat on, had slurs screamed my way, and hit by cars (yes, plural).
But hpx, what’d you do to provoke all this?
Nothing, friend. I’m quiet, polite in interactions, keep my yap shut and mind my own business. Every single one of these happened out the blue with little to no input my end. Each left me more flabbergasted than the last.
Some I actually get - unhoused or mentally compromised folk lashing out at unlucky targets. But others had more malice - the pack of skinheads looking for a fight or drivers who felt inconvenienced because they had to stop at crosswalks.
But hey, least it ain’t Calgary. Fuuuuck that place.
OP must be québécois.
I don’t get Paris either. It’s a big city, what do you expect? I love it. I’m currently in Prague and I reaaaalllly prefer Paris.
Paris is shitty for tourists who follow the main path. It certainly has many cool places and things if you care to look. You just won’t see any camera wielding Japanese tourists there. And of course it has all the crime and poverty problems you expect from a city that attracts anything and anyone of note from the whole country.
Now Lille, that felt off. Or any place on the Mediterranean in winter.
I’d be curious to know what felt off in Lille?
Tbh, it has been a while and maybe I am confusing it with another city. But it just felt… like nothing special. No reason to be there. Mediocre at best, lame at worst. Big ugly cities usually have a thriving subculture, or surviving there is an experience by itself at least. But it just felt like the city equivalent of the word “meh”
There’s a strong organized crime presence
Hey Doug Ford is a provincial problem
It’s just NYC without any sort of character. Concrete buildings and dystopian. I just don’t like being there.
As a lifelong NYer now living in Toronto I beg to differ. Sure it’s smaller than NYC by almost every metric except land size, but it has hidden pockets of community and life if you look for them. Compared to NYC, Toronto is greener, friendlier, and better for artists. It has lots of third spaces, which are all but extinct in NYC. Parts of NYC truly are nothing more than dystopian concrete slabs (ever visit Midtown?)
Unfortunately, both cities are victims to festering capitalism and governments that hate us, so you are correct in your assessment of gentrifiers stripping it for parts. The same exact thing can be said about nearly every city in the US and Canada. It’s almost always done against the will of the people who actually have to live with their changes. In NYC, just last year we all banded together to narrowly defeat a proposal that threatened to demolish Coney Island and replace it with a dystopian mega casino - and that was just one of six casino proposals that year. At the same time in Toronto, Ford’s spa was a mirror of the same type of development and now Sneaky Dee’s is at risk of becoming condos. I don’t see this as a failure of each city but rather a casualty of right wing politics and the greater class war.
For what it’s worth, I do miss NYC and all my friends and loved ones out there. As they say, you can take the NYer out of NY but you can’t take NY out of the NYer. I truly do love both cities and look forward to the day I can reunite them.
Dallas is a soulless corpse where you can’t walk anywhere due to highways, but it you use the highways then it’s like trying to dodge clicking on sketchy ads trying to trick you to click them on PC, except the ads are toll roads. Also every car is trying to kill you.
I tried to go to a music show once. It was in a really run down part of town with sketchy people standing around staring at us. There was no signage. We weren’t even sure we were in the right place and no one looked friendly so we just left, and got hit by more surprise tolls on the way back. You can’t leave your house there without having to pay money. It is the most miserable place I’ve ever been.
Second runner up is Port Arthur, Texas. Going to take the scenic route down the coast, are you? Well it’s nothing but pipes and smoke stacks. You can see only a little bit of the marsh that used to be there. The city itself is run down, rotting houses leaning sideways with the pipes and industry always being in the backdrop. Clearly the town is receiving no tax money from the oil corporations infesting their coast in what would otherwise be a nice place. It was a mostly black population I saw outside. Inside stores the people I saw wearing plant uniforms were white or Hispanic and clearly didn’t live in the immediate area. The story writes itself.
I Google the town and it turns out it used to be a nice place with a little permanent carnival on the coast with a ferris wheel and rides with a flourishing tourist industry, but all those people who could afford it moved out when the oil industry moved in and drained the town. Now the only people there are the ones who can’t get out.
It was the most depressing town I’ve ever been through.
God I fucking hate Texas.
I’m from Dallas and this is exactly how is describe it too. It’s an absymally failed attempt to create a human society.
I used to be a trucker, and ya Dallas had bad vibes. It was always so sad seeing all the stray dogs running around.
Literally read a Texas Monthly article asking What’s Wrong with Downtown Dallas today: https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/whats-wrong-with-downtown-dallas/
I grew up in one of the (many) suburbs of Dallas in the late 90’s early 00’s and the problem I had with it is it’s the most extreme form of gentrification I’ve ever witnessed. You can probably estimate an individual’s annual salary within about $20k based on their zip code. The city is so concerned with seeming like a good place to visit, they don’t seem to care if it’s a good place to live.
