Again this ignores the reality that the ceasefire happened under a Republican, that zionist democrats are just as fanatical as their republican peers when it comes to Israel, that getting zionist democrats elected normalizes genocide, makes it conditional, and gives the overall system a permission structure to justify further genocide against other groups, a permission structure that has already been used in less extreme but still horrific circumstances by Democrats against trans and immigrant communities
The problem here is that you think the Democratic Party is in any way, shape, or form open to Palestinian liberation; they are not, they are so fanatical they sacrificed their own chances in a national election and allowed Donald Trump to regain office, the only sane response to this kind of genocidal derangement is a total boycott of any Democrat who exhibits even the smallest degree of support for Israel
Creating an environment where a politician cannot get elected no matter the party thanks to Israel is how you nudge things in the right direction; otherwise you’re just fooling yourself and backing the normalization of genocide
Again this ignores the reality that the ceasefire happened under a Republican, that zionist democrats are just as fanatical as their republican peers when it comes to Israel, that getting zionist democrats elected normalizes genocide, makes it conditional, and gives the overall system a permission structure to justify further genocide against other groups, a permission structure that has already been used in less extreme but still horrific circumstances by Democrats against trans and immigrant communities
First, I think the ceasefire is better ascribed to time and mounting global backlash than it is to Trump. Trump is the same one who proposed the US move all the people out and take control, the one who said we should just finish the job, and the one who just a few months ago, several months after the start of the ceasefire, said Gaza was great real estate and that we should clean it out and build skyscrapers. The only thing I’ve seen that Trump has said or done that suggests he gives the slightest shit about Gaza is that the ceasefire happened under him. So it seems more likely that Israel recognizes the global backlash is a threat to their long term support as protesters age up, vote more often, enter political office, and have meaningful money to allocate in boycotts. Once it became clear it was happening, I’d fully expect Trump to dive on the opportunity to take credit for it to stroke his ego and give him another excuse to whine about the peace prize he didn’t get.
The problem here is that you think the Democratic Party is in any way, shape, or form open to Palestinian liberation; they are not, they are so fanatical they sacrificed their own chances in a national election and allowed Donald Trump to regain office, the only sane response to this kind of genocidal derangement is a total boycott of any Democrat who exhibits even the smallest degree of support for Israel
No, see, I fully agree that the Democratic Party is going to strongly resist all attempts to break support for Israel in Gaza. I just think that breaking them is more likely than breaking Trump, and we won’t get another chance to choose who we’re pressuring for another 4 years.
The problem I see with a total boycott of the Democratic Party is that this guarantees Republicans win, and when Republicans win, Democrats move to the right to chase centrists and fleeing Republicans. Every time. Not once in my lifetime have I seen the Democrats lose and think to themselves “wow, maybe we should court progressives instead of centrists”. Republicans win, so they pick up Republican tendencies to stay competitive.
Compare that to what happened when we voted. Many people understandably took issue with Harris refusing to take a stand against Israel in Gaza, they abstained or voted third party, and we got Trump. Did Democrats freely release the election autopsy report? No, they fought tooth and nail to hide it for weeks. Did they admit Gaza cost them? No, they’re doing their best not to touch on that. Are they starting to pivot towards opposing Israel in Gaza? Nope. It kinda seems like we gave Republicans power in exchange for absolutely nothing.
Creating an environment where a politician cannot get elected no matter the party thanks to Israel is how you nudge things in the right direction; otherwise you’re just fooling yourself and backing the normalization of genocide
As a long term strategy, I think you’re potentially right from a single topic perspective. The problem with that is that the genocide had already begun and was ongoing. Playing the long game means spending 4 years of Gaza genocide in exchange for the opportunity to prevent the Democrats from supporting the next genocide. In the meantime, the Palestinians are just fucked if we can’t get through to Trump, and no way in fuck are we getting through to Trump. It was a slim chance with the Democrats, but at least we’d have a chance without having to wait 4 years for the next election.
There’s also the problem that things get messy, and it’s really hard to get all the potential horrors covered with a vote. For example, Trump’s revocation of USAID funding is projected to lead to 9.4 million deaths by 2030, which means that that alone is going to cause almost 4x as many deaths as the entire population of Gaza, just from a single one of Trump’s blatantly unconstitutional orders. I’ve heard claims that USAID uses its money to influence regions and could be considered codified corruption, and that’s probably true to at least some extent, but that doesn’t change the fact that 4 whole Gazas’ worth of people are going to die because of Trump. But that’s not genocide, it’s spread across the globe, so it’s not really the same. But it’s also 4x the deaths. No matter who you vote for, they will do something you disagree with, probably something absolutely abhorrent, and that can feel like being complicit, but I think it’s only genuinely complicit if you’re not resisting it or if you’re willingly enabling it. Ultimately, someone is getting elected, and we’re almost certainly not going to approve of everything they do, so we might as well try to limit how shit they are before we have to start resisting the stupid shit.
First, I think the ceasefire is better ascribed to time and mounting global backlash than it is to Trump
Doesn’t matter what the reasons were, what matters is Trump relented and Biden and Harris didn’t. Despite just as much, if not more backlash (because of their kayfabe of being liberal), they didn’t budge an inch and were so fanatical and dedicated they sacrificed the presidency to maintain support for the genocide, despite the fact internal polling and data was showing the genocide was costing them millions of votes.
That is why your arguments don’t make sense on their face. The DNC is STILL in lockstep with AIPAC and Israel, there hasn’t been any movement internally in the Democratic Party, so it’s ludicrous to assert the Democratic Party would magically change if they won elections without addressing the genocide. All you would accomplish would be to signal to the DNC that they’ve regained their power by being fanatical Zionists and that the American people don’t truly care about genocide, giving them a future permission structure to aid or commit new genocides
Trump’s revocation of USAID funding is projected to lead to 9.4 million deaths by 2030
That nonsense assumes the vacuums wouldn’t be filled by long-suppressed native industries, markets and state initiatives that were undercut by cartel-like “aid”, as well there not being any international aid to make up potential shortfalls
It’s pure racist, paternalistic gibberish with no data to support it. USAID was a US intelligence front that actively destabilized local markets and funneled wealth and “aid” into the hands of corrupt compradors who used to enrich themselves and their families, leading to underfunded industries and communities that likely already led to the deaths of millions
Also I should point out sanctions do kill millions of people and Biden intensified them against Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, even beyond Trump 1 levels, Biden created new frameworks to expand sanctions by orders of magnitude, giving Trump a useful weapon in his second term…
But that’s not genocide, it’s spread across the globe, so it’s not really the same
Then why are you trying to clumsily use the myth of that claim to engage in genocide trivialization? Capitalism through social murder kills millions of people every month. It doesn’t mean genocide isn’t a far more qualitatively abominable development that leads to civilizational destruction far beyond the typical deaths caused by poverty and overall population size
The problem here is you don’t see Palestinians as people deserving of the same unqualified right to exist as anyone else. I bet a million fuckin bucks you’d have never made that sorry argument in relation to Ukraine or the Holocaust
Again this ignores the reality that the ceasefire happened under a Republican, that zionist democrats are just as fanatical as their republican peers when it comes to Israel, that getting zionist democrats elected normalizes genocide, makes it conditional, and gives the overall system a permission structure to justify further genocide against other groups, a permission structure that has already been used in less extreme but still horrific circumstances by Democrats against trans and immigrant communities
The problem here is that you think the Democratic Party is in any way, shape, or form open to Palestinian liberation; they are not, they are so fanatical they sacrificed their own chances in a national election and allowed Donald Trump to regain office, the only sane response to this kind of genocidal derangement is a total boycott of any Democrat who exhibits even the smallest degree of support for Israel
Creating an environment where a politician cannot get elected no matter the party thanks to Israel is how you nudge things in the right direction; otherwise you’re just fooling yourself and backing the normalization of genocide
First, I think the ceasefire is better ascribed to time and mounting global backlash than it is to Trump. Trump is the same one who proposed the US move all the people out and take control, the one who said we should just finish the job, and the one who just a few months ago, several months after the start of the ceasefire, said Gaza was great real estate and that we should clean it out and build skyscrapers. The only thing I’ve seen that Trump has said or done that suggests he gives the slightest shit about Gaza is that the ceasefire happened under him. So it seems more likely that Israel recognizes the global backlash is a threat to their long term support as protesters age up, vote more often, enter political office, and have meaningful money to allocate in boycotts. Once it became clear it was happening, I’d fully expect Trump to dive on the opportunity to take credit for it to stroke his ego and give him another excuse to whine about the peace prize he didn’t get.
No, see, I fully agree that the Democratic Party is going to strongly resist all attempts to break support for Israel in Gaza. I just think that breaking them is more likely than breaking Trump, and we won’t get another chance to choose who we’re pressuring for another 4 years.
The problem I see with a total boycott of the Democratic Party is that this guarantees Republicans win, and when Republicans win, Democrats move to the right to chase centrists and fleeing Republicans. Every time. Not once in my lifetime have I seen the Democrats lose and think to themselves “wow, maybe we should court progressives instead of centrists”. Republicans win, so they pick up Republican tendencies to stay competitive.
Compare that to what happened when we voted. Many people understandably took issue with Harris refusing to take a stand against Israel in Gaza, they abstained or voted third party, and we got Trump. Did Democrats freely release the election autopsy report? No, they fought tooth and nail to hide it for weeks. Did they admit Gaza cost them? No, they’re doing their best not to touch on that. Are they starting to pivot towards opposing Israel in Gaza? Nope. It kinda seems like we gave Republicans power in exchange for absolutely nothing.
As a long term strategy, I think you’re potentially right from a single topic perspective. The problem with that is that the genocide had already begun and was ongoing. Playing the long game means spending 4 years of Gaza genocide in exchange for the opportunity to prevent the Democrats from supporting the next genocide. In the meantime, the Palestinians are just fucked if we can’t get through to Trump, and no way in fuck are we getting through to Trump. It was a slim chance with the Democrats, but at least we’d have a chance without having to wait 4 years for the next election.
There’s also the problem that things get messy, and it’s really hard to get all the potential horrors covered with a vote. For example, Trump’s revocation of USAID funding is projected to lead to 9.4 million deaths by 2030, which means that that alone is going to cause almost 4x as many deaths as the entire population of Gaza, just from a single one of Trump’s blatantly unconstitutional orders. I’ve heard claims that USAID uses its money to influence regions and could be considered codified corruption, and that’s probably true to at least some extent, but that doesn’t change the fact that 4 whole Gazas’ worth of people are going to die because of Trump. But that’s not genocide, it’s spread across the globe, so it’s not really the same. But it’s also 4x the deaths. No matter who you vote for, they will do something you disagree with, probably something absolutely abhorrent, and that can feel like being complicit, but I think it’s only genuinely complicit if you’re not resisting it or if you’re willingly enabling it. Ultimately, someone is getting elected, and we’re almost certainly not going to approve of everything they do, so we might as well try to limit how shit they are before we have to start resisting the stupid shit.
Doesn’t matter what the reasons were, what matters is Trump relented and Biden and Harris didn’t. Despite just as much, if not more backlash (because of their kayfabe of being liberal), they didn’t budge an inch and were so fanatical and dedicated they sacrificed the presidency to maintain support for the genocide, despite the fact internal polling and data was showing the genocide was costing them millions of votes.
That is why your arguments don’t make sense on their face. The DNC is STILL in lockstep with AIPAC and Israel, there hasn’t been any movement internally in the Democratic Party, so it’s ludicrous to assert the Democratic Party would magically change if they won elections without addressing the genocide. All you would accomplish would be to signal to the DNC that they’ve regained their power by being fanatical Zionists and that the American people don’t truly care about genocide, giving them a future permission structure to aid or commit new genocides
That nonsense assumes the vacuums wouldn’t be filled by long-suppressed native industries, markets and state initiatives that were undercut by cartel-like “aid”, as well there not being any international aid to make up potential shortfalls
It’s pure racist, paternalistic gibberish with no data to support it. USAID was a US intelligence front that actively destabilized local markets and funneled wealth and “aid” into the hands of corrupt compradors who used to enrich themselves and their families, leading to underfunded industries and communities that likely already led to the deaths of millions
Also I should point out sanctions do kill millions of people and Biden intensified them against Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, even beyond Trump 1 levels, Biden created new frameworks to expand sanctions by orders of magnitude, giving Trump a useful weapon in his second term…
Then why are you trying to clumsily use the myth of that claim to engage in genocide trivialization? Capitalism through social murder kills millions of people every month. It doesn’t mean genocide isn’t a far more qualitatively abominable development that leads to civilizational destruction far beyond the typical deaths caused by poverty and overall population size
The problem here is you don’t see Palestinians as people deserving of the same unqualified right to exist as anyone else. I bet a million fuckin bucks you’d have never made that sorry argument in relation to Ukraine or the Holocaust