Are you a bot? I literally addressed every one of these claims above; the chart IS UNDERCOUNTING BY A FACTOR OF TEN, Israel blew up all the hospitals that counted the dead; those early numbers never actually decreased; they simply weren’t counted by anyone
The chart also doesn’t account for the fact the ceasefire allowed for more identification of bodies, which means people who were killed under Biden’s watch were only identified months later after Trump took office
The chart, despite being wrong even then shows the vast majority of deaths took place under Biden and the greatest decrease, in absolute terms, took place under Trump
Like thirty of you motherfuckers dog piled me, I’m trying to work through it as fast as I can, but I got stuff to do, too. I don’t just sit around and wait for you to say something for me to dote on. Calm down, I’ll get to you when I get a chance.
I’ve tried to reply in good faith to every single person who has responded with a modicum of kindness. Well, it’s still a work in progress, I’ve got like 18 notifications still after probably 25ish replies, and I’ll pop this short one off the list before I disengage for today.
You wanna actually try to discuss the topic? I’m happy to have a polite discussion, as you can see me doing many times in this thread if you look around. If you wanna just insult me and put words in my mouth? I’m gonna tell you to get fucked and move on, it’s not worth my time to devote more to a response like that.
You’ve had the fatal flaws in your thinking calmly explained to you a dozen times over, and simply refuse to acknowledge it. Then, once people stop being so remarkably patient with you, you take that friction as an excuse to retreat into adolescent hostility.
“Reply in good faith” yeah man only the most good faith people have to say it out loud.
If you were here in good faith, you would answer people’s critique in a way that isn’t just “uhh well we can’t do anything or even think about doing anything until the blue Hitler party is back in power.”
I’ve probably received over 50 replies in this thread. I’ve taken the time to respond to as many of them as I can, so long as they’re more than just vapid insults. My apologies if my failure to put my life on hold to read everything ASAP has irritated you. I’ve tried to respond to people in the order they replied to me, and that means I may not have read a response that came later, even if it’s getting a little old by the time I get to it.a
“Reply in good faith” yeah man only the most good faith people have to say it out loud.
I’m trying to get the vitriol to calm down. Some people, a precious few of them who responded, have taken the time to look past their irritation to calmly, genuinely, and without insult, ask quality question about the things I’ve said that have been able to make me reconsider it. Some have even brought some great evidence for their claims and as reasoning for their questions, which really made me stop and consider some things.
Then, there’s people like you. People who want to hurl insults constantly. Who want to assume the worst of me. Who assume everyone has as much time as them to study up, to reply to a torrent of pissed off internet comments, to do something about it. And I don’t mean that in some belittling way, as if I’m better than you because I’m so busy doing Important Things. I’m not. I’m trying to stay fed and sheltered, and it’s taking up a shitload of my time. I’m genuinely happy that some people have the opportunity to learn about it and do something about it. I just can’t do as much as some of you with the constraints life has put on me. What do I get for that? I get belittled for not having already done the work you all already did. Unfortunately, when I had the time, I didn’t have the exposure and background to ask the right questions, and now, I have the exposure and background to give me the inclination to engage and give the ideas a shot, but I don’t have the opportunity to study extensively.
Despite that, when I accidentally wander into an unfamiliar community that federated to my instance and very quickly realized from the responses that it was full of people with a very different viewpoint, I hung around and hoped that if I tried to engage without being the first to hurl insults, maybe someone would make a good point or, better yet, bring some quality evidence or study material. Maybe I could learn a little bit about why they think the way they do. On that front, I’d say talking with people like you has been an utter waste of my time, except that it has occasionally given someone else the opportunity to step in and give me what I stayed to look for.
If you were here in good faith, you would answer people’s critique in a way that isn’t just “uhh well we can’t do anything or even think about doing anything until the blue Hitler party is back in power.”
See, now this? This is an utterly bad faith argument here because I explicitly said not that SO MANY FUCKING TIMES. Everyone here is pretending I said to just vote and then stick my thumb up my ass until they win. That’s not what I fucking said. I said to spend just a couple hours every year or two, depending on your local election schedule, voting for whoever among the candidates has a genuine chance of winning and will be most pliable to your other efforts. After the vote is cast, go do whatever you think will be most productive towards your goals. Organize. Protest. Boycott. I could probably get away with listing some more extreme options here on Hexbear, but you should get the point by now and be able to extrapolate. Everyone in here is sure they know the best way, so fine, let’s assume your judgment is right on that front, at least.
I’m not interested in engaging with the vitriol on this topic anymore. I tried it, and not a single one of the rampant assholes has managed to say anything to make a serious impact. The people who weren’t assholes had a decent chance to make a good point, so my takeaway is that the assholes aren’t worth engaging with any longer than it takes to establish a point and give the people with a more skilled touch a chance to step in. I admit I’ve taken the bait and matched energy with people I shouldn’t have, probably even was the first to get heated or a little rude a few times. For that, I am sorry. Matching sarcasm to sarcasm is satisfying in the moment, but as I’ve seen, it accomplishes nothing. I made no ground with them, and they made no ground with me.
I still have a couple notifications for other messages from you that I haven’t gotten to, but at a quick glance, it’s just the same vitriol, so I’m just gonna clear those and ignore them. Because I’m here with a genuine and open willingness to learn, despite what you may try to claim about me, if you’d like to make any remarks or provide any sources you think would be worth looking at, I would still like to consider them. But if you start berating and insulting me again, I’m just going to invite you to go fuck yourself with a rusty rake and block you. You might see me around in here if wander in on accident again or come in out of curiosity, but I’ll remain blissfully unaware of your shit ass.
I’ve tried to respond to people in the order they replied to me, and that means I may not have read a response that came later, even if it’s getting a little old by the time I get to it.
This is a ridiculous way to interact with a thread, especially one in which you’re getting a lot of replies in a short amount of time. You should read first, then respond to only a few, only the ones that need response.
But because of your puzzling and wrongheaded decisions, I’ve gotten to read some absolute banger writing from Chana, so that’s been nice for me. Of course, it has been interspersed with your repetitive drivel, so that’s slightly less fun. (Your comments wouldn’t be so repetitive and pointless if you read first, commented selectively after. Please give it a go, you’ll waste less of your, and everyone else’s, time)
See you didn’t understand that I’m not insulting you so much as emphatically telling you that you are digging your own holes here. Nobody required you to share your ignorant opinions in favor of genocidaires and then keep defending them and deflecting despite knowing nothing.
You created your own problem and are now complaining about it like it’s just something that happened to poor little you.
I don’t mind that I got a lot of replies. I just didn’t like being hassled by someone who expected me to handle the flood on their schedule.
stop advocating for genocide
Go fuck yourself. Just because I don’t agree with you on how to stop it doesn’t mean I’m an advocate for it. If you wanna ever manage to make another communist out of someone else, maybe don’t insult them when you find common ground.
I’ll look over anything anyone wants to share, so if you have any good sources to contradict the chart that you haven’t included, feel free to edit them in. I haven’t tracked down your original comment, so that’s not to say you haven’t, just if you want me to see anything, go ahead and add it there. It’ll probably be tomorrow or maybe the next day before I get a chance to churn through any more of this, but I’ll try to get back to it as soon as I can. I may not be fond of the overly cynical defeatism that’s popular in here, but I get where it’s coming from, and I’m open to having my view changed if people are willing to share quality evidence. I’ll try to dig up your comment before I go through the others and see what’s potentially wrong with the chart.
The meaning has already been explained to you and is listed in the WHO citation of your own source. The Gaza Health Ministry is the officially-sanctioned death count producer in all of these “reports” and was systematically disabled by relentless genocidal bombing campaigns of the entire region, and particularly hospitals. Those counts are not accurate, they are a floor, and they are off by an order of magnitude.
The liberal-friendly source on the latter is a Lancet study from like 2024. But there have been many studies on this. Not that you need studies, because again, just knowing the basics of what happened on the ground and how these statistics themselves are sourced makes it obvious. Every major hospital was destroyed. That’s where they recorded these things early-on, primarily. Mass displacement during this hot genocide meant civil services were breaking down and the peopl resposnible were dead, hiding, or moving. This is all very pubilcly known information.
I’m pretty sure I’ve already moved past a notification from you where I’ve admitted someone has explained this and I’ve accepted the mistake. Pretty sure you were kind of an asshole about it, but I’ll address that when I get to it, that’s not the point here.
I was aware of the destruction of infrastructure, hospitals, etc., but I made the apparently erroneous assumption that other methods were used to make a more (but still not completely) accurate estimate. I did not expect the numbers to be perfect, but I figured they’d probably be close enough for discussion purposes. I have been repeatedly assured, by people who don’t seem to grasp that I’m responding to comments in the order I get them, that that is incorrect, so I’ll check out that study when I get a bit more time. If you have anything else that’s relevant, especially anything that might more accurately reflect the count beyond knowing it’s wildly inaccurate, I’d be open to reading that, too.
I’m pretty sure I’ve already moved past a notification from you where I’ve admitted someone has explained this and I’ve accepted the mistake.
I’m not pretty sure. Should I start whining about how you didn’t preemptively provide a citation for this?
Pretty sure you were kind of an asshole about it, but I’ll address that when I get to it, that’s not the point here.
Go ahead and point to it and we can discuss.
I was aware of the destruction of infrastructure, hospitals, etc., but I made the apparently erroneous assumption that other methods were used to make a more (but still not completely) accurate estimate.
So you knew that the GHM was the source of these statistics? That they were largely disabled by the mass bombing campaigns, where the numbers stayed flat while civilian cetner bombing campaigns escalated? that didn’t make you scratch your head? I know that you didn’t really follow these things very closely and did not think of this. In isolation, that is fine. I don’t require anyone to know these things by default. The only expectation is in how they respond to correction and how they pretend at knowledge to forward the power and careers of those doing the genocide.
I did not expect the numbers to be perfect
You claimed they meant something that they don’t. THat is the issue. Nobody set the bar of “perfect”.
but I figured they’d probably be close enough for discussion purposes.
Wrong.
I have been repeatedly assured, by people who don’t seem to grasp that I’m responding to comments in the order I get them, that that is incorrect, so I’ll check out that study when I get a bit more time.
Do that instead of resonding to comments. ANd again, you don’t even need the fucking study. You just need an operational understanding of where the statistics you cited come from. Not everything in politics is going to be laid out for you on a platter by some university dweebs, you need to konw how to question these things before a lancet study comes out, just like every pro-Palestine organizer knew in 2023. That is, if you want to lecture others about it and double down and pretend to be the explainer on this topic.
If you have anything else that’s relevant, especially anything that might more accurately reflect the count beyond knowing it’s wildly inaccurate, I’d be open to reading that, too.
It’s a floor. It is an undercount by an order of magnitude. Nobody knows the actual number because the people responsible for recording it were killed and displaced and the bodies buried under high rises and still not exhumed. The bombing has not stopped. Your boy Biden made sure of that. Vote for him, eh?
I’m open to having my view changed if people are willing to share quality evidence.
Evidence was repeatedly provided to you and you keep going on the same insufferable diatribe. You aren’t willing to accept that you are wrong, you accuse of us being cynical and defeatist just for correctly pointing out no amount of voting blue will stop this. You have been nothing but condescending in this thread to people treating you with more patience and grace than you deserve.
At the time that I wrote that, I had not seen any of it yet because I addressed all my comments in the order they came in, to the best of my ability. Any evidence that may have been provided came after my response here. I’m trying to work through this as fast as I can, but I got SO MANY responses. Calm down, I’ll get through them all eventually.
Don’t bother replying just read what everyone else said and have a long think about it. You could have been reading instead of spamming that useless chart to everyone.
Are you a bot? I literally addressed every one of these claims above; the chart IS UNDERCOUNTING BY A FACTOR OF TEN, Israel blew up all the hospitals that counted the dead; those early numbers never actually decreased; they simply weren’t counted by anyone
The chart also doesn’t account for the fact the ceasefire allowed for more identification of bodies, which means people who were killed under Biden’s watch were only identified months later after Trump took office
The chart, despite being wrong even then shows the vast majority of deaths took place under Biden and the greatest decrease, in absolute terms, took place under Trump
Like thirty of you motherfuckers dog piled me, I’m trying to work through it as fast as I can, but I got stuff to do, too. I don’t just sit around and wait for you to say something for me to dote on. Calm down, I’ll get to you when I get a chance.
You can always just shut the fuck up and not write ignorant genocide apologia.
You can also gargle my balls, but I tried to stay a bit more polite than that.
I’ve tried to reply in good faith to every single person who has responded with a modicum of kindness. Well, it’s still a work in progress, I’ve got like 18 notifications still after probably 25ish replies, and I’ll pop this short one off the list before I disengage for today.
You wanna actually try to discuss the topic? I’m happy to have a polite discussion, as you can see me doing many times in this thread if you look around. If you wanna just insult me and put words in my mouth? I’m gonna tell you to get fucked and move on, it’s not worth my time to devote more to a response like that.
You’ve had the fatal flaws in your thinking calmly explained to you a dozen times over, and simply refuse to acknowledge it. Then, once people stop being so remarkably patient with you, you take that friction as an excuse to retreat into adolescent hostility.
“Reply in good faith” yeah man only the most good faith people have to say it out loud.
If you were here in good faith, you would answer people’s critique in a way that isn’t just “uhh well we can’t do anything or even think about doing anything until the blue Hitler party is back in power.”
I’ve probably received over 50 replies in this thread. I’ve taken the time to respond to as many of them as I can, so long as they’re more than just vapid insults. My apologies if my failure to put my life on hold to read everything ASAP has irritated you. I’ve tried to respond to people in the order they replied to me, and that means I may not have read a response that came later, even if it’s getting a little old by the time I get to it.a
I’m trying to get the vitriol to calm down. Some people, a precious few of them who responded, have taken the time to look past their irritation to calmly, genuinely, and without insult, ask quality question about the things I’ve said that have been able to make me reconsider it. Some have even brought some great evidence for their claims and as reasoning for their questions, which really made me stop and consider some things.
Then, there’s people like you. People who want to hurl insults constantly. Who want to assume the worst of me. Who assume everyone has as much time as them to study up, to reply to a torrent of pissed off internet comments, to do something about it. And I don’t mean that in some belittling way, as if I’m better than you because I’m so busy doing Important Things. I’m not. I’m trying to stay fed and sheltered, and it’s taking up a shitload of my time. I’m genuinely happy that some people have the opportunity to learn about it and do something about it. I just can’t do as much as some of you with the constraints life has put on me. What do I get for that? I get belittled for not having already done the work you all already did. Unfortunately, when I had the time, I didn’t have the exposure and background to ask the right questions, and now, I have the exposure and background to give me the inclination to engage and give the ideas a shot, but I don’t have the opportunity to study extensively.
Despite that, when I accidentally wander into an unfamiliar community that federated to my instance and very quickly realized from the responses that it was full of people with a very different viewpoint, I hung around and hoped that if I tried to engage without being the first to hurl insults, maybe someone would make a good point or, better yet, bring some quality evidence or study material. Maybe I could learn a little bit about why they think the way they do. On that front, I’d say talking with people like you has been an utter waste of my time, except that it has occasionally given someone else the opportunity to step in and give me what I stayed to look for.
See, now this? This is an utterly bad faith argument here because I explicitly said not that SO MANY FUCKING TIMES. Everyone here is pretending I said to just vote and then stick my thumb up my ass until they win. That’s not what I fucking said. I said to spend just a couple hours every year or two, depending on your local election schedule, voting for whoever among the candidates has a genuine chance of winning and will be most pliable to your other efforts. After the vote is cast, go do whatever you think will be most productive towards your goals. Organize. Protest. Boycott. I could probably get away with listing some more extreme options here on Hexbear, but you should get the point by now and be able to extrapolate. Everyone in here is sure they know the best way, so fine, let’s assume your judgment is right on that front, at least.
I’m not interested in engaging with the vitriol on this topic anymore. I tried it, and not a single one of the rampant assholes has managed to say anything to make a serious impact. The people who weren’t assholes had a decent chance to make a good point, so my takeaway is that the assholes aren’t worth engaging with any longer than it takes to establish a point and give the people with a more skilled touch a chance to step in. I admit I’ve taken the bait and matched energy with people I shouldn’t have, probably even was the first to get heated or a little rude a few times. For that, I am sorry. Matching sarcasm to sarcasm is satisfying in the moment, but as I’ve seen, it accomplishes nothing. I made no ground with them, and they made no ground with me.
I still have a couple notifications for other messages from you that I haven’t gotten to, but at a quick glance, it’s just the same vitriol, so I’m just gonna clear those and ignore them. Because I’m here with a genuine and open willingness to learn, despite what you may try to claim about me, if you’d like to make any remarks or provide any sources you think would be worth looking at, I would still like to consider them. But if you start berating and insulting me again, I’m just going to invite you to go fuck yourself with a rusty rake and block you. You might see me around in here if wander in on accident again or come in out of curiosity, but I’ll remain blissfully unaware of your shit ass.
You said you were going to stop replying for a day or two
This is a ridiculous way to interact with a thread, especially one in which you’re getting a lot of replies in a short amount of time. You should read first, then respond to only a few, only the ones that need response.
But because of your puzzling and wrongheaded decisions, I’ve gotten to read some absolute banger writing from Chana, so that’s been nice for me. Of course, it has been interspersed with your repetitive drivel, so that’s slightly less fun. (Your comments wouldn’t be so repetitive and pointless if you read first, commented selectively after. Please give it a go, you’ll waste less of your, and everyone else’s, time)
See you didn’t understand that I’m not insulting you so much as emphatically telling you that you are digging your own holes here. Nobody required you to share your ignorant opinions in favor of genocidaires and then keep defending them and deflecting despite knowing nothing.
You created your own problem and are now complaining about it like it’s just something that happened to poor little you.
If you don’t like being dog piled by communists, stop advocating for genocide
I don’t mind that I got a lot of replies. I just didn’t like being hassled by someone who expected me to handle the flood on their schedule.
Go fuck yourself. Just because I don’t agree with you on how to stop it doesn’t mean I’m an advocate for it. If you wanna ever manage to make another communist out of someone else, maybe don’t insult them when you find common ground.
I ain’t reading all that nazi shit, free Palestine
Fair enough on the dogpile thing, but you really have to stop posting that chart; it’s grossly incorrect and misrepresentative
I’ll look over anything anyone wants to share, so if you have any good sources to contradict the chart that you haven’t included, feel free to edit them in. I haven’t tracked down your original comment, so that’s not to say you haven’t, just if you want me to see anything, go ahead and add it there. It’ll probably be tomorrow or maybe the next day before I get a chance to churn through any more of this, but I’ll try to get back to it as soon as I can. I may not be fond of the overly cynical defeatism that’s popular in here, but I get where it’s coming from, and I’m open to having my view changed if people are willing to share quality evidence. I’ll try to dig up your comment before I go through the others and see what’s potentially wrong with the chart.
The meaning has already been explained to you and is listed in the WHO citation of your own source. The Gaza Health Ministry is the officially-sanctioned death count producer in all of these “reports” and was systematically disabled by relentless genocidal bombing campaigns of the entire region, and particularly hospitals. Those counts are not accurate, they are a floor, and they are off by an order of magnitude.
The liberal-friendly source on the latter is a Lancet study from like 2024. But there have been many studies on this. Not that you need studies, because again, just knowing the basics of what happened on the ground and how these statistics themselves are sourced makes it obvious. Every major hospital was destroyed. That’s where they recorded these things early-on, primarily. Mass displacement during this hot genocide meant civil services were breaking down and the peopl resposnible were dead, hiding, or moving. This is all very pubilcly known information.
I’m pretty sure I’ve already moved past a notification from you where I’ve admitted someone has explained this and I’ve accepted the mistake. Pretty sure you were kind of an asshole about it, but I’ll address that when I get to it, that’s not the point here.
I was aware of the destruction of infrastructure, hospitals, etc., but I made the apparently erroneous assumption that other methods were used to make a more (but still not completely) accurate estimate. I did not expect the numbers to be perfect, but I figured they’d probably be close enough for discussion purposes. I have been repeatedly assured, by people who don’t seem to grasp that I’m responding to comments in the order I get them, that that is incorrect, so I’ll check out that study when I get a bit more time. If you have anything else that’s relevant, especially anything that might more accurately reflect the count beyond knowing it’s wildly inaccurate, I’d be open to reading that, too.
I’m not pretty sure. Should I start whining about how you didn’t preemptively provide a citation for this?
Go ahead and point to it and we can discuss.
So you knew that the GHM was the source of these statistics? That they were largely disabled by the mass bombing campaigns, where the numbers stayed flat while civilian cetner bombing campaigns escalated? that didn’t make you scratch your head? I know that you didn’t really follow these things very closely and did not think of this. In isolation, that is fine. I don’t require anyone to know these things by default. The only expectation is in how they respond to correction and how they pretend at knowledge to forward the power and careers of those doing the genocide.
You claimed they meant something that they don’t. THat is the issue. Nobody set the bar of “perfect”.
Wrong.
Do that instead of resonding to comments. ANd again, you don’t even need the fucking study. You just need an operational understanding of where the statistics you cited come from. Not everything in politics is going to be laid out for you on a platter by some university dweebs, you need to konw how to question these things before a lancet study comes out, just like every pro-Palestine organizer knew in 2023. That is, if you want to lecture others about it and double down and pretend to be the explainer on this topic.
It’s a floor. It is an undercount by an order of magnitude. Nobody knows the actual number because the people responsible for recording it were killed and displaced and the bodies buried under high rises and still not exhumed. The bombing has not stopped. Your boy Biden made sure of that. Vote for him, eh?
Evidence was repeatedly provided to you and you keep going on the same insufferable diatribe. You aren’t willing to accept that you are wrong, you accuse of us being cynical and defeatist just for correctly pointing out no amount of voting blue will stop this. You have been nothing but condescending in this thread to people treating you with more patience and grace than you deserve.
At the time that I wrote that, I had not seen any of it yet because I addressed all my comments in the order they came in, to the best of my ability. Any evidence that may have been provided came after my response here. I’m trying to work through this as fast as I can, but I got SO MANY responses. Calm down, I’ll get through them all eventually.
Don’t bother replying just read what everyone else said and have a long think about it. You could have been reading instead of spamming that useless chart to everyone.