Many believe Harris lost in 2024 because voters viewed her as too progressive, and that Ocasio-Cortez could face the same problem.
Who’s this “many”? Kamala lost because of her Joe Biden neolib policies, her hard heel-turn to the right, and her “nothing will change, we are the most lethal military” stance on the Middle East.
Instead of reassuring the masses who she thought were a shoe-in, she tried to appease the “I’ll never vote for a black woman” crowd, which alienated the former and would never have worked on the latter.
It was either the greatest miscalculation ever, lead by Third Way focus groups, or someone tugged the leash. Either way, with the GOP rat fucking that was almost certainly happening to some degree.
Pretty shitty of Newsweek to pretend that progressive policies are unpopular with a majority of Americans.
they do this every time though. The centrists fail, so obviously the answer is more centrism.
More centrism to the right, of course, never to the left.
Yup.
However, the immediate effect of not voting for the lesser evil is either not voting, meaning the right wins, or voting for candidates with no chance of winning, taking votes away from the more left ones and allowing the right to win. “More right” is better than “all the way to the far right.”
If you’re not going to change direction, the speed at which you’re moving right isn’t really important. You’re getting there anyways.
It is important, because continuing that way isn’t a foregone conclusion, despite you acting like it is.
Sure thing Charlie Brown, one day you’re gonna kick that DNC football!
No, she lost because she was black and a woman. People always underestimate just how racist and sexist the US is. Don’t fall into this trap.
You couldn’t mention her name around here without a bandwagon of “She’s the literal genocide queen and a vote for her is a vote to murder Palestinian children.”
I mean, she did support the genocide. Which murdered tens of thousands of Palestinian children. What is your point?
Thank you for illustrating my point. And I’m sure you feel like Trump is doing a fantastic job with human rights, at home and abroad (when he comes up for air while gargling Bibi’s balls, of course).
And I’m sure you feel like Trump is doing a fantastic job with human rights
Why don’t you just go have a nice tea party with the little strawman you’ve created?
The only thing Trump is doing a great job at is destroying the US. Whether that’s good or not, debatable.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience”
You’re in the trap unfortunately
Just bad luck a woman has never been president in the US in your mind?
I’ll pray for you
You and all the other rednecks in that backwards country. May your God have mercy as long as you pay him every week.
Lord have mercy on this lost sheep
The DNC is not gonna be happy about this… 😆
Sure they will be. They’ll look at the poll results, throw them in the garbage, and run Newsom like they were already planning to
And then: OH noes! Democracy is in danger. Give us $10.
And then: OH noes! Democracy is in danger. Give us $10.
And then they get $1.5b+ again and lose again or at best scrape a narrow win against either Trump, Vance, or another profoundly incompetent and obviously fundamentally corrupt candidate.
ilovedemocracy.jpg
The DNC is currently up shit creek. Many other major Democratic organizations are out fundraising them by a wide margin. Many “true blue” Democrats are pissed as hell at DNC leadership and how utterly spineless and opaque they’re being. I don’t think we’re going into this next election cycle with a DNC that’s powerful enough to thumb the scales in that way
They are protecting the Epstein class
I.E. protecting themselves.
They weren’t happy about Bernie and look at the fucking mess they caused.
They’re gonna have a harder time painting all progressives as sexists and racists when we’re going apeshit over AOC. I like her even more than Sanders.
It’s well past time to ride roughshod over them.
If I can humbly suggest another solution . . .
They’re going to love having a fresh face to attract people to the party, donate lots of time and money, and stick around to get scolded with “Vote Blue No Matter Who” when progressives are rug pulled in Iowa and New Hampshire.
If she throws her hat into the ring I fully expect the DNC to sabotage her at every opportunity.
They’ll play nice and keep it on the down low and then pull some Obaman, secret, backroom Super-Tuesday fuckery to steal the momentum and likely nomination from
SandersAOC and give it to a center-right, corporatist shill like Buttgiggle or Shamala.Meanwhile, we all want AOC and Bernie. If Bernie wants to VP, I’m all in.
I’d also vote for Bernie (VP or Pres.), still. But, I think there are younger progressives that could fill the role quite well.
I’d even take someone more centrist for the VP role, since that might make it easier for them to attract (Super)PAC monies.
In this moment, any candidate who receives super PAC funding from corporations or Israel is a bad candidate.
Centrism is dead. The right is dying. This is a time for moving towards socialism.
We are still a FPtP system, you don’t get to write off the majority, if you want to gain political power through elections. Right+Center > 50% of electorate.
Taking resources away from “bad” organizations, and using them for the socialist project is a good thing. The trick is not given them (as much) value in return.
Right+Center > 50% of electorate.
You’re wrong, but of course you’re welcome to your opinions.
Wow, what a surprise, someone who believes that two party politics is representative of the left/right of politics is wrong about things.
Many believe Harris lost in 2024 because voters viewed her as too progressive
What are they talking about
They’re drinking the kool aid.
Harris lost because she never should have been nominated. Before she was nominated she was polling at 2% among Democrats. Nobody wanted her. And her campaign offered zero new ideas or new energy or new solutions, basically promising to be Biden 2.0 (just without the trust carried over from Obama’s presidency). Obviously that didn’t work, and (just like Hillary), ‘I’m not Trump’ wasn’t enough to get her elected.
Her being progressive had NOTHING to do with it.
There’s also the unfortunate consideration that she’s a woman. A black woman. That’s like playing on hardcore+ permadeath mode when it comes to elections…
I wish it wasn’t that way but it’s the reality in the US if you want a meaningful shot of winning… There is an unfortunate amount of voters who just won’t vote for a woman or a POC…
Edit: it seems I triggered a lot of people intent on shooting the messenger. I should make it clear I don’t believe this myself, but it seems a lot of people are unused to seeing opposing views on this backed by sources.
Speaking of which, after reading some sources, it sounds like education is a pretty strong counter to these biases, although it needs to start a long time before an election. You don’t do 4 years of education in the 8 months leading up to the presidential election… It needs to start now.
i reject this stance. the same thing is said about a black president. and women make up 50 % of the vote base.
especially since this is a talking point of operatives who seek a gender based wedge.
and also moot when there were a lot of issues whith both women candidates who were the democrats primary candidates in the last few presidential elections. these issues supersede all other reasons. the internal reports point to the backing of a genocide and aligning with establishment democrats, the ultra wealthy, and her “tough on crime” stance that is by design targeting minorities.
AND AND she lost by a narrow margin, male nominees have lost by FAR MORE then she did
do not accept such arguments
Yeah rejecting it doesn’t make it false… Just because 50% of the voting base are women doesn’t mean they’re feminists. There’s a lot of internalized misogyny.
Obama was a bridge too far for a ton of American voters and he was only a well educated light skinned black man… He still ticked all the other boxes for an American president. A female president is beyond the pale for a lot of Americans.
The Democrats are welcome to deny reality, ignore candidate popularity during primaries, kill all other candidate potential, and then lose the presidency again and act confused about why that happened… I guess the big thing they have going for them is trump isn’t allowed to run a 3rd time so the trump cult candidate will be a weaker option compared to trump himself.
what makes it false is the idea that she lost because she was a woman.
the numbers do not agree
it is a sexist point because it pushes the thought that democrats can not run female candidates if they want to win.
this is provably false, even considering misogyny. and like i said, is sourced from political operatives looking for a wedge. misogyny is just not that influential.
Harris was polling to win the election, up until the listed slights against the progressive base.
you can see that even within the democratic party a push to reaffirm conservative power by reassigning failures of the party on such things like inclusiveness, sexism, racism, ect. they attempted to hide the result of their internal investigation that counters their talking points.
it is also a thought terminating accusation with no one to blame and fights against progression in this regard. and should be shouted down when ever and where ever it crops up.
I don’t believe this either. Her polling was dead wrong up until the last minute, same with trump but the warning signs were there early. I don’t think it was reflecting reality so it’s a bad measuring stick for the situation. Also, don’t shoot the messenger here I’m not supporting this but it’s an important aspect of why she lost even if you disagree with me…
Edit: I’m going to copy one of my other comments with sources below to support my argument, and why this should be brought up and identified.
Here’s an article on what I’m talking about
When voters are presented with evidence showing that women political candidates garner just as much support as men in U.S. general elections, voters’ intentions to support women presidential candidates increased by about 3 percentage points, the researchers’ data showed
If they aren’t shown and it’s normalized that a candidate can garner just as much political support then it’s a headwind…
There’s also the belief I’m talking about where people say a woman can’t win, which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It also comes down to advertising and education (which are hamstrung by mudslinging during elections)
There are a lot of studies like this. I could go on for quite a while.
There’s also a double bind racial bias where black female candidates are viewed as highly competent but unsuitable for a general election.
We theorize that one driving force is a paradox among Democratic primary voters: namely, that Black women are seen both as more liberal and less electable. Using two different survey experiments, we show that, while most Democratic primary candidates benefit from perceptions of being more liberal, this cannot be said for Black women due to beliefs that they are less likely to win in the general election.
These issues need to be:
A) recognized as real.
B) dealt with through education and normalization.
Ironically your style of comment is undermining A and B by saying none of this is real, and shutting down any conversation about potentially fixing it…
Sexists love to say it is everyone else’s reasoning for the way they speak.
You are currently the one telling people that their gender or skin color stops them from doing what they want. You are being part of what crushes them.
I’m not saying I like it or want it to be that way. There are a lot of people who prefer to ostrich about the problem than deal with it. Would me having said nothing or deleting my comments be better? Would me doing or saying nothing about the problem help to solve it?
Not saying you like killing people while shooting then in the head doesnt make them any less dead or you any less guilty. It is just an easy excuse for you to continue your actions without dealing with your own morals.
You want to act like you think critically? Do it. Right now you are adding to the message that people will read and hear that says they are less than and you will claim its repeating it for no ones benefit but the truth as if the truth agrees with you.
You want to deal with the problem, work on dealing with it, instead of bowing down and getting out of the way of it.
Here’s an article on what I’m talking about
When voters are presented with evidence showing that women political candidates garner just as much support as men in U.S. general elections, voters’ intentions to support women presidential candidates increased by about 3 percentage points, the researchers’ data showed
If they aren’t shown and it’s normalized that a candidate can garner just as much political support then it’s a headwind…
There’s also the belief I’m talking about where people say a woman can’t win, which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It also comes down to advertising and education (which are hamstrung by mudslinging during elections)
There are a lot of studies like this. I could go on for quite a while.
There’s also a double bind racial bias where black female candidates are viewed as highly competent but unsuitable for a general election.
We theorize that one driving force is a paradox among Democratic primary voters: namely, that Black women are seen both as more liberal and less electable. Using two different survey experiments, we show that, while most Democratic primary candidates benefit from perceptions of being more liberal, this cannot be said for Black women due to beliefs that they are less likely to win in the general election.
These issues need to be:
A) recognized as real.
B) dealt with through education and normalization.
Ironically your style of comment is undermining A and B by saying none of this is real, and shutting down any conversation about potentially fixing it…
It is BS. She lost because she is dumb politically. Obama won because people viewed him as a progressive.
If you actually believe she’ll win I have another bridge to sell you
Knowing the DNC, you’ll end up again with Biden
fuck off with that negativity
Because toxic positivity has been working so well the past ten years
What positivity is that exactly?
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They’re not even in the U.S. they’re just here to talk shit and disenfranchise people.
Maybe y’all should listen. Just cuz you’re part of the half of Americans that can read above the 6th grade level doesn’t mean you’re not completely inundated with the group think that’s gotten y’all to where you are.
Regardless, there are multiple valid counter arguments to an AOC 2028 run. I’d say ignore them at your own peril but the USA is causing global harm right now. So like it or not non-american opinions actually do matter. Lord knows the rest of the world wishes we weren’t stuck in the same boat with you.
I’d laugh so hard if the backlash against trump was an AOC presidency!
Do people genuinely think someone running for a party that backed a genocide can be any good and that should be voted?
What do you propose?
Usually this is where I would make a long winded comment on replacing First-past-the-post voting with a voting system that allows more then two parties to exist without a spoiler effect… but that time has long since passed us by.
Good luck out there yall.
So you’ve got nothing, got it.
So, we shouldn’t vote is what you’re saying?
You shouldn’t vote for people who endorse a genocide or who are part of organizations that endorse one.
Ah, so I just shouldn’t vote. That’ll fix this.
The democratic party funded by AIPAC will rather see Trump for a third time than having AOC as president.
Rather than having a woman as president*
Why the down votes for this comment?
They don’t want to admit this country is sadly bigoted and a lot of men don’t want a woman running the country
Cuz they already ran a woman for president, twice. So saying the dems don’t want a woman president is just categorically false.
Bold to assume that’s what I was saying 😂
Men don’t want a women running this country sadly
Or, maybe, people who will vote for a Democrat don’t want a neoliberal centrist?
Biden barely won even with COVID, and he ran to the left of both Clinton and Harris.
Ok sure but the question was “why is this getting downvoted?”
They’re run 2 candidates that lost to the GOP that were women already. Where is the idea that the Dems won’t run a woman coming from?
I mean there are a lot of men who don’t want that.
White women voted for Trump. Does that mean there’s lots of white women who won’t vote for a woman?
Yes, but I’m just pointing out people are fucking sexist here
Well, perhaps it is concern that the Dems shouldn’t run a woman, not that they haven’t. The reality of the situation is that there is still plenty of closeted (some less so) misogyny among Democrats such that a woman is going to have a harder time winning than a man (all other things being equal) in the general. Add a racial minority, socdem, and 8 years of GOPedo vilification on top of that and you have an even harder path forward than Clinton or Harris, especially if the GOP nominee in 2028 is an outwardly reasonable, straight, white, male. I still think that the GOPedos stole the 2024 election, but I also think that their steal may not have been successful if a straight, white, male had replaced Biden instead of a brown woman. Not that I want any of this to be true, but I think it is where we are currently.
Ideologues that vote solely on what genitals a candidate has
Even the chuddiest chuds I know don’t express anything remotely like that opinion. Racism, xenophobia, and Islamophobia are all either open topics or simmering just below the surface of political discussion, but not the sex of a politician. Nevertheless, the hand-winging centrists are sure there’s a wellspring of otherwise gettable voters that are driven by that single issue. And its salience magically rises and falls depending on whether there’s a popular female progressive.
This is why you lose elections
Oh, I’m sorry. I thought your original response was mocking that take. I try to assume good faith so someone writing that sincerely didn’t make sense.
Democrats are starting their primary already? Must want to try and get people to vote in the midterms.
No, it clearly states in the article that this data was from a poll conducted by AtlasIntel, a Brazilian marketing company. They also point out that not a single other poll has gotten these results. This post is very misleading. But people see a headline they like, and they upvote/comment without bothering to read the articles.
Part of me hates to see her try. As long as she is straddling the line between serious presidential candidate and popular US House member my head cannon reasons there is still some sanity in some small part of our political institutions.
Watching her actually seriously try to get the top job and watching the DNC ruin her for it would be so depressing.
Yep that’s my thinking. The dems don’t do good campaigns and they often don’t pick good candidates. Tbh I’d rather see her not get it
They tried to stink Obama as hard as they could and failed. this is how party politics works.
But it worked with Bernie.
He was an independent though. That means not even party attachment.
But he ran for the democratic nomination. That distinction really doesn’t make any difference in this case. They successfully stopped him twice.
It would internally to them and it did in the end. They just simply weren’t prepared to spend money on an independent and found a way to stop it.
It’s a shame, he’d have made a good president and I don’t think Trump would have beaten him. We’d be looking at a different history and world by now.
How odd…a candidate that seems to give a shit about us is leading.
Don’t worry, some dirt will be invented, and unfounded rumours will be spread, well in time for her to lose.
Mamdani proved that harsh and cunning compaign against someone can help
Sigh
Do people still not get the U.S.? Despite the U.S. doing its best to let the whole world know exactly what it’s like?
Twice now we have run highly qualified women against a convicted felon, adjudicated rapist, insurrectionist, low IQ, racist, loud mouth dipshit. And both times they lost to that felon rapist dipshit. We ran those women against the worst of the worst…AND THEY FUCKING LOST. And no, I do not care that one won the popular vote, cuz that shit doesn’t make people president in the U.S.
What more proof do we need that the U.S. isn’t ready for a female president? It took an extremely educated, personable, and charismatic black man just to finally get a black man as president. And there’s a lot of people out there a whole lot more open to a black man as president than ANY woman.
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She is a woman.
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She is not white.
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She is younger than any president ever. Voters tend not to want young people as president.
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While liked by the left, centrists do not like her. She’s too liberal for them. Same story with Bernie.
The odds are stacked against her. You don’t keep betting on a losing strategy if you want to win. That’s insanity. And I don’t know about y’all, but I’M TIRED OF FUCKING LOSING. And even if we avoid this treasonous Trump 3rd term bullshit, if another Republican wins the next one, they’ll probably get 8 years total. And that asshole will know all the things he can bend and break because Trump showed him. By the end of that 8 years, we really won’t have to worry about voting again. Or we’ll be one of those countries where we still “vote” but the same guy just keeps winning even though it doesn’t add up.
This is too fucking serious to be gambling on a long shot. She won’t win. And we’ll lose our futures. It’ll be the same as with Hillary and Kamala. It’ll seem locked in and the energy will be electrifying, and then the reality of America and American voters who aren’t associated with left leaning platforms like Reddit and Lemmy will kick in and we’ll fucking lose.
NOTE: I, personally, would love someone as left as AOC or Bernie to be president. That doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. Reality exists and we have to work within its boundaries, or lose, forever.
Sounds like you are not getting the U.S.
Both the red and blue party are the same and everyone running for these is scum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_Gaza_war
Both the red and blue party are the same
There is no faster way on the internet to prove to everyone that you have no clue what you’re talking about than to make this statement.
Both Sider’s are wasting everyone’s time and causing more harm than good.
There is also no even remotely viable 3rd party and absolutely, positively will not be by 2028. So again, you are wasting everyone’s time with nonsense.
They’re not the same! But they are both for sale. They don’t have any actual bedrock values or anything.
For example, Ds are the “pro-labor” party, but minimum wage is just over seven bucks and unions have been destroyed (from 40 to 10%, the remainder are mostly cops and government). We have been surpassed by Poland. Face it.
Rs are the “state’s rights” party, but the second they hold office they pass the Patriot Act and fund ICE and withhold funds from the states and ignore their courts.
Look at the results, don’t listen to the bloviating, that’s just to fuck with your head.
Go ahead and vote, I will. But watch.
the Patriot Act
You’re speaking of the bipartisan Patriot Act?
But they’re not the same lol
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cant believe so called leftists will vote another establishment democrat candidate
The thing is any succesful presidential candidate in America can’t be too progressive. Especially now the overton window has shifted towards the extreme right. I would love to see it but it won’t happen.
A left of the middle president is the best you can hope for, sadly.
I dont think voting works.
