Race is also a social construct, as you point out.
Skin color is a genetic phenotype., biological sex is too. Those phenotypes are inherited.
So yeah, you could change your appearance: skin color, bone structure, musculature, etc with surgery.
Michael Jackson is a good example of this (though he had vitiligo). Compare pictures of his face in his early career to later. He was still ‘African American’ though.
They are making a point that gender is something in one’s own mind. It’s not necessarily genetic.
Sex is not changed with surgery. Surgery allows the person receiving it to have a body that matches more closely with what they want to feel like (their gender). No different than people getting breast implants or reductions or labioplasty or plastic surgery or dick enhancement.
Most people have a body/sex that fits their preferred gender which is why this feels weird to some people, especially the ones that can’t or won’t reason through this. They make snap judgments with previous biases or prejudices which is an unfair and somewhat bigoted position to take.
I wasn’t really bringing social construct into it because I don’t think it is greatly relevant. Race isn’t entirely a social construct, it’s more akin to sex. You are born with the genetics of your heritage much like you are born with the genetics of your sex and neither changes just because you have a surgery. Perhaps heritage would be better to use than race. North African descent, Japanese descent, Scandinavian descent, Samoan descent, the heritage of each of these would impact your genetic makeup and things like healthcare much like sex impacts the type of care you may need.
There is plenty more nuance to this but that’s my general opinion on why they differ.
Why is race not based on how you perceive yourself? There are many people who walk the line between races, should they be forced to be the race that others think that they best match?
Ok then. I don’t give a shit about gender. That isn’t biological. That’s psychological.
Only care about sex. That’s biological.
Race is based on hereditary and genetics. It’s not reducible to simply skin color. Race is a spectrum, so there’s endless ‘off-whites.’
People aren’t born with identities anymore than they are culture. No one is born with a gender, apparently. They’re born with a sex.
If you leave young kids alone they’ll eventually get naked and, uh, investigate each other … regardless of sex.
Now you understand where TERFs are coming from. Right? Right?
Right?
One could argue no one is born with a gender identity. No one is born with a sexual orientation. But thinking makes it so. So where do those thoughts come from? Because it’s not kids.
ok, so no word of a lie, i saw your comment, look at the name, read it as “fascistBasis” and I’m like dayum, they be self identifying and everything nowadays.
OK, so i really need to preface this with the fact that this is a genuine question, my knowledge of political ideologies and their naming schemes is basically “things i heard in passing on the internet”.
Also apologies if it’s a joke that i’ve /whooshed on.
What is the difference between the type of democratic socialist you are and a social democrat.
The reason i ask is that the only other social democrat (or democratic socialist, assuming there isn’t a difference) political ideology I’ve heard of was the precursor to the nazi’s.
It’s really not a dig, i’m interested in the answer.
See: Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), Bernie Sanders, Zohran Mamdani, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez(AOC), or other progressive democrats or independents.
That video isn’t loading for me.
As far as I know, yes they are similar. (social democrat to democratic socialist)
I guess the difference is inclusivity. And if we’re talking a Party or ideology(capitalization matters, like I’m a democrat, but not a Democrat.)
Unlike Nazis, I’m for inclusivity. Come as you are, all faiths welcome.
But I also personally detest body mutilation. Even when they want it. Yea, all forms. So tattoos, piercings, gauges, split tongues, etc. but to be clear: I don’t think it should be illegal for adults to ‘mutilate themselves’, voluntarily. It’s just not for me. It’s a gut feeling kind of thing.
I think maybe, psychologically, it’s because it is seeking external validation. To “pass” as the kids say. I don’t think people should need to “pass”… You’re good as your are. I don’t think you’re going to improve on God’s design.
Gender isn’t a heritable trait. I’m not a boy because my dad was a boy any more than I am a girl because my mom was a girl. I am white because my parents were white
Sort of. You’re white because that’s the box that society put you into. There are children of African-American parents who are so light-skinned that they pass as white and vice versa. Regardless of what race your parents are, you are the race that people perceive you as, because it’s only based on perception.
I should gave clarified that it’s a bit more complex. Even I’m not sure how I really feel about this topic. Of course I’m white because I have light skin and my parents were white, but it becomes a lot more complicated when you’re melanistic with white parents or albino with black parents. And then there’s mixed races. Is a lighter skinned black guy “whiter” than a darker skinned mixed guy?
I’m waaay too white to be commenting on who can and can’t be considered what races lmao
It’s definitely a complex issue with nuances that go beyond the surface level of the argument. The short answer is that gender is a fluid expression, race is static because it’s your heritage.
There’s way more to it obviously, but I’m not really qualified or eloquent enough to really get into it.
The reason, fyi, is because they’re two different categories of thing. Gender is, and always has been, centered around the social aspects. Presentation, identity, roles, behaviours.
Race is a complex category, with a mix of physiological and culture dependent aspects.
You can’t change your race because you can’t change your heritage, which is a component.
You can, however, change your cultural identity. It’s not a perfect analog to gender, obviously, but it’s closer to race.
Much like how we conflated the names for the sexes with the names for the genders, many cultures share a name with a race that is a prominent member. This is often acutely clear to mixed race people or people adopted into a different racial household.
she’s a piece of shit :)
I agree.
But I’m trying to think of a valid argument as to why you can change your gender but not race.
easy. Race have as much to do with skin colour as gender is with having a pp. People are black because racists decided what “black” meant.
They’re not changing gender, they’re changing their body to match their gender.
Sure, but does that mean you can also change your body to match your race? Like isn’t race also a social construct?
Irish people weren’t considered white not too long ago, so surely it must be.
Race is also a social construct, as you point out.
Skin color is a genetic phenotype., biological sex is too. Those phenotypes are inherited.
So yeah, you could change your appearance: skin color, bone structure, musculature, etc with surgery.
Michael Jackson is a good example of this (though he had vitiligo). Compare pictures of his face in his early career to later. He was still ‘African American’ though.
Gender is not inherited
I don’t see how that’s relevant
They are making a point that gender is something in one’s own mind. It’s not necessarily genetic.
Sex is not changed with surgery. Surgery allows the person receiving it to have a body that matches more closely with what they want to feel like (their gender). No different than people getting breast implants or reductions or labioplasty or plastic surgery or dick enhancement.
Most people have a body/sex that fits their preferred gender which is why this feels weird to some people, especially the ones that can’t or won’t reason through this. They make snap judgments with previous biases or prejudices which is an unfair and somewhat bigoted position to take.
Sure but race is also a social construct. It’s not inherited.
Eg. some people didn’t consider the Irish as white.
So neither is inherited, aka why I asked how it’s relevant.
I wasn’t really bringing social construct into it because I don’t think it is greatly relevant. Race isn’t entirely a social construct, it’s more akin to sex. You are born with the genetics of your heritage much like you are born with the genetics of your sex and neither changes just because you have a surgery. Perhaps heritage would be better to use than race. North African descent, Japanese descent, Scandinavian descent, Samoan descent, the heritage of each of these would impact your genetic makeup and things like healthcare much like sex impacts the type of care you may need.
There is plenty more nuance to this but that’s my general opinion on why they differ.
deleted by creator
Why is race not based on how you perceive yourself? There are many people who walk the line between races, should they be forced to be the race that others think that they best match?
because nobody’s black or white. These categories solely represent ethnicities considered desirable vs undesirable. Irish people weren’t white.
So everybody’s Irish? I don’t get it.
Exactly. One day paddies will rule the world and it’ll all be ireland
How would you even ‘force to be a race’ ?
You can force people’s gender by criminalizing gender affirming care
Do you think banning blackface is remotely comparable?
Whiteness is an exclusionary concept, it’s entire purpose is to create an in-group and out-group.
Whiteness as a social structure is perhaps the most pervasive descriptor of difference, being, and non-being. Structures of whiteness and being formally delimit the identities, bodies, and lives of non-white people. Frantz Fanon recognizes this in his depiction of identity in the book Black Skin, White Masks.
Ok then. I don’t give a shit about gender. That isn’t biological. That’s psychological.
Only care about sex. That’s biological.
Race is based on hereditary and genetics. It’s not reducible to simply skin color. Race is a spectrum, so there’s endless ‘off-whites.’
People aren’t born with identities anymore than they are culture. No one is born with a gender, apparently. They’re born with a sex.
If you leave young kids alone they’ll eventually get naked and, uh, investigate each other … regardless of sex.
Now you understand where TERFs are coming from. Right? Right?
Right?
One could argue no one is born with a gender identity. No one is born with a sexual orientation. But thinking makes it so. So where do those thoughts come from? Because it’s not kids.
gross
Got that one labeled as a fascist so, checks out
Huh. Mine says “ugly transphobe.”
You can label users on here? Like private notes? Or am I misunderstanding you?
At least some apps allow you to. I’m using Thunder. I think interstellar allows it to
ok, so no word of a lie, i saw your comment, look at the name, read it as “fascistBasis” and I’m like dayum, they be self identifying and everything nowadays.
then realised my mistake.
I guess TERF would be more exact
Their controversial comments are less bad than I expected from my previous interaction with them, besides the TERFbrained comments
Yeah that was an easy block
I’m a Democratic socialist, Stalin.
OK, so i really need to preface this with the fact that this is a genuine question, my knowledge of political ideologies and their naming schemes is basically “things i heard in passing on the internet”.
Also apologies if it’s a joke that i’ve /whooshed on.
What is the difference between the type of democratic socialist you are and a social democrat.
Is it a Peoples Front Of Judea type of thing ? or is there a legitimate difference?
The reason i ask is that the only other social democrat (or democratic socialist, assuming there isn’t a difference) political ideology I’ve heard of was the precursor to the nazi’s.
It’s really not a dig, i’m interested in the answer.
See: Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), Bernie Sanders, Zohran Mamdani, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez(AOC), or other progressive democrats or independents.
That video isn’t loading for me.
As far as I know, yes they are similar. (social democrat to democratic socialist)
I guess the difference is inclusivity. And if we’re talking a Party or ideology(capitalization matters, like I’m a democrat, but not a Democrat.)
Unlike Nazis, I’m for inclusivity. Come as you are, all faiths welcome.
But I also personally detest body mutilation. Even when they want it. Yea, all forms. So tattoos, piercings, gauges, split tongues, etc. but to be clear: I don’t think it should be illegal for adults to ‘mutilate themselves’, voluntarily. It’s just not for me. It’s a gut feeling kind of thing.
I think maybe, psychologically, it’s because it is seeking external validation. To “pass” as the kids say. I don’t think people should need to “pass”… You’re good as your are. I don’t think you’re going to improve on God’s design.
Lol that checks out
Downvote. Unsubstantial.
Living up to your username
Isn’t that the point?
No
No.
You might need fallopian tubes to understand.
No.
Gotcha. I can explain things to you, but I can’t understand them for you.
Have a good day.
Fuck off, JK.
Gender isn’t a heritable trait. I’m not a boy because my dad was a boy any more than I am a girl because my mom was a girl. I am white because my parents were white
Sort of. You’re white because that’s the box that society put you into. There are children of African-American parents who are so light-skinned that they pass as white and vice versa. Regardless of what race your parents are, you are the race that people perceive you as, because it’s only based on perception.
I should gave clarified that it’s a bit more complex. Even I’m not sure how I really feel about this topic. Of course I’m white because I have light skin and my parents were white, but it becomes a lot more complicated when you’re melanistic with white parents or albino with black parents. And then there’s mixed races. Is a lighter skinned black guy “whiter” than a darker skinned mixed guy?
I’m waaay too white to be commenting on who can and can’t be considered what races lmao
Because gender is a social convention
because I did and it worked. I’m a woman and everybody around me sees and and we all just get on with life. (See part 1)
https://www.transvitae.com/debunking-the-transracial-comparison-why-gender-and-race-differ/
What makes you think that you can’t change your race?
If you can change your gender, you can change your race.
So yea seems like you can
It’s definitely a complex issue with nuances that go beyond the surface level of the argument. The short answer is that gender is a fluid expression, race is static because it’s your heritage.
There’s way more to it obviously, but I’m not really qualified or eloquent enough to really get into it.
If you don’t see why, then why do you agree she’s a piece of shit?
The reason, fyi, is because they’re two different categories of thing. Gender is, and always has been, centered around the social aspects. Presentation, identity, roles, behaviours.
Race is a complex category, with a mix of physiological and culture dependent aspects.
You can’t change your race because you can’t change your heritage, which is a component.
You can, however, change your cultural identity. It’s not a perfect analog to gender, obviously, but it’s closer to race.
Much like how we conflated the names for the sexes with the names for the genders, many cultures share a name with a race that is a prominent member. This is often acutely clear to mixed race people or people adopted into a different racial household.
Because race is a stupid term made to group people based on their appearance. 500 years ago it didn’t even exist.
Gender is a deeper aspect which exist from the begining of our species.
Both seem to just be social constructs, so you should be able to change both
Yes but Race is tied to DNA, like sex. You can change gender, but you can not change sex.
Race isn’t tied to DNA, it’s a social construct.
The Irish weren’t considered white at some point, and I’m pretty sure there are people who feel that Italians/Spanish are a different race etc.
idk Michael Jackson did… something
Also Martina Big:
https://blacknews.com/news/martina-big-white-woman-darkened-skin-identifies-black-plans-move-africa/