• Fedegenerate@fedinsfw.app
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    4 days ago

    The world has one fewer asshole in it.

    Taken to the extreme, the next asshole steps up, and gets his head blown off. This continues until the person who steps up isn’t an asshole.

    Instead what happened was Trump didn’t get his head blown off, and Alex Pretti did.


    P1 trump is an asshole

    P2 fewer assholes in the world is a better world than one with more assholes.

    C1 Had trump been removed from the world, there would be fewer assholes and as such been a better world.

    P3 trump would have probably been succeeded by another asshole.

    C2 had that asshole been removed from the world, the world would have fewer assholes still, and be better for it.

    Instead we have fewer nurses.

      • Fedegenerate@fedinsfw.app
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        4 days ago

        Ah yes, the reign of terror

        Typical privileged liberal response. For people target by ICE, they are already in the reign of terror. For women losing their rights, they are already in the reign of terror. For lgbt having their rights removed, they are already in the reign of terror. For those with families in Palestine, they are already in the reign of terror. I’m happy for you, you don’t know any of these groups, you have no empathy for these groups.

        Those people being terrorised, no reign of terror. Alex pretti being shot, no reign of terror. A rich cishet white pedophile male being shot? Now you’re terrorised.

        Wanna deal with my premises and conclusions now? Would you like to disagree with P1, P2, P3, C1 or C2? Or just tell me your terrorised by fascists having violence visited upon them?

        I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice […] - MLk letter from Birmingham jail

        • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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          4 days ago

          So, let’s examine the possibilities:

          1. You are a U.S. citizen and therefor a hypocrite for not having died on your sword already.

          2. You are a foreigner with no skin in the game who should be focusing on problems at home (because there are).

          Robespierre was killed by the end of the reign of terror. Maybe you should look at what happens when we indiscriminately kill people*.

          Edit: because I don’t just disagree with them, fuck the conservatives — I just also recognize your suggestions are equally shit and reductive.

          • Fedegenerate@fedinsfw.app
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            4 days ago

            What do you disagree with? P1, P2, P3, C1, or C2? Or do you want to keep telling me how you’re not terrorised by the current regime, but would be terrorised by fascists having violence visited upon them.

            You want to learn from history? Historically, how have fascists successfully been handled?

            I just also recognize your suggestions are equally shit and reductive.

            Tell me the difference between fascists and those who fight fascists? You: “I can’t”

              • Fedegenerate@fedinsfw.app
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                4 days ago

                Saw this after I sent my reply? Want me to delete it? I tried to stay level, for what it’s worth, while being called stupid, an idiot, and being told to go fuck myself.

                • Skavau@piefed.socialOPM
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                  4 days ago

                  No, I’ve just deleted when it got bad. I realise the chain of affairs, but I thought it was just best to purge it all as I’ve been down this road before and more new chains kept popping up. I’m sure you realise you do have highly contentious views on this topic that will rile some people up.

                  • Fedegenerate@fedinsfw.app
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                    4 days ago

                    I do. I tried to keep it level. It’s your house, I’m not arguing.

                    I meant I sent a reply at the end of the chain, where it got ‘heated’.

                    Eh, Jax replied. I’m happy with those being the last words.

          • Senal@programming.dev
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            4 days ago

            A false dichotomy? In this economy?

            Also neither of them make sense.

            Actually is it a false dichotomy when neither option exists, is there a word for that? A false fauxchotomy?

            Also also, I don’t think indiscriminate is the word you are looking for, as a clear criteria was set here and unless Robespierre truly killed with no criteria they would both fit the bill for discrimination ( even if you don’t agree with their reasoning )

            Edit : wait, no it’d need to just be fauxchotomy or that’s a double negative

            • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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              4 days ago

              To my knowledge of the reign of terror, the majority of people killed were the working class, peasants, followed by the middle class — for a series of killings seemingly only pointed at the bourgeois that certainly seems indiscriminate.

              If you participate in a system that punishes people with violent retribution indiscriminately, that violence will be visited upon you inevitably. Randomly killing politicians will not solve anything, and I’m not about to detail what will on a public forum. You can take that however you will, I’m not about to continue arguing with blue MAGA.

              Edit: oh, and no — I’m not of the opinion that a reign of terror will happen. I think something worse will happen.

              • Senal@programming.dev
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                4 days ago

                TL;DR;

                You responses are weak and full of unjustifiable black and white objective statements.

                I was never arguing for assassinations, only for you to try and phrase your arguments in a better way.

                If you want to interpret me questioning your word choice as a personal attack on you, you might want to look in to why you are having that reaction, your call though.


                So I’m going to break this in to two sections.

                The first one is a clarification on my actual point because your reply implies you didn’t really understand what was being said, that could be on me and my poor communication skills.

                The second is a reply to you assuming you did understand and were intentionally raising strawmen to dodge actually addressing the points. This only applies if you were intentionally ignoring the content of my reply, feel free to skip it


                FIRST SECTION

                Just in case its my fault for not being clear, here’s a more comprehensive version of my original arguments.

                A false dichotomy is where you present two options in such a fashion as to imply they are the only two options.

                I think we can agree there are more than just the options you posited.

                Speaking of the options:

                You are a U.S. citizen and therefor a hypocrite for not having died on your sword already.

                You are a foreigner with no skin in the game who should be focusing on problems at home (because there are).

                Neither of these make sense.

                1. Nobody was arguing that all US citizens had to fall on their sword.

                Perhaps i missed it, fell free to point to an example of this and i will rescind my claim.

                1. For this to be true you’d have to argue that no-one outside of the US is affected by anything happening inside the US.

                I think we can both agree that you can’t possibly justify that claim.


                SECOND SECTION

                To my knowledge of the reign of terror, the majority of people killed were the working class, peasants, followed by the middle class — for a series of killings seemingly only pointed at the bourgeois that certainly seems indiscriminate.

                Ok, so firstly that’s a terribly worded sentence but i think i get the gist.

                Secondly the killings weren’t exclusively aimed at the bourgeois though the movement was ostensibly about that, a lot of the people were purportedly killed for not being fully onboard with the revolution.

                Regardless of any of that, unless you’re about to argue they were just pulling up randoms on the street and killing them just because they could then it still doesn’t satisfy the word indiscriminate.

                Just because it doesn’t fit your criteria of what was appropriate doesn’t mean there wasn’t discrimination.

                If you participate in a system that punishes people with violent retribution indiscriminately, that violence will be visited upon you inevitably.

                If you want to live your life by pretty sounding black and white aphorisms, that’s your call, but i think we both know that sentence isn’t true.

                Increased likelihood, probably, inevitable that’s some black and white hyperbolous nonsense.

                Randomly killing politicians will not solve anything, and I’m not about to detail what will on a public forum. You can take that however you will, I’m not about to continue arguing with blue MAGA.

                i wasn’t arguing any solution, assassination-based or otherwise but if you wish to pretend i was so you don’t have to address the actual point made i suppose that that is an answer in and of itself.

                Edit: oh, and no — I’m not of the opinion that a reign of terror will happen. I think something worse will happen.

                I wasn’t implying you were, i was wondering what kind of acceleration you were envisioning but nothing you’ve said so far leads me to believe you are going to engage on any of the actual points i raised, so i won’t hold my breath.


                • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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                  4 days ago

                  Yeah I assumed you were associated with the other user in this thread — the essay and your snide comments about my word use more or less confirms this.

                  By the way, don’t comment on how another person writes and then proceed to fail at capitilizing I. You can keep your essay.

                  Edit: By the way 2 electric boogaloo, my point to you is the same as the other user — go out and fall on your sword or continue bloviating on an online forum. Your choice, all I know is it smells like a couple of cowards to me.

                  • Senal@programming.dev
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                    4 days ago

                    TL;DR;

                    START READ HERE

                    Seems the previous TL;DR; was too long ill try to be more concise.

                    Two people disagreeing with you (for different reasons no less) doesn’t mean they are associated, get a grip on that ego.

                    Grammar and logic aren’t the same thing.

                    You’ve argued many positions from your imagination and not a single position that was actually taken.

                    There is no conversation (of this type) to be had with someone who can’t separate imagination from actual text.

                    Good luck with life.

                    END READ HERE


                    BIG SENTENCES PAST HERE

                    I know long sentences aren’t your thing, you can stop here, this is only so i have it written down.

                    Yeah I assumed you were associated with the other user in this thread — the essay and your snide comments about my word use more or less confirms this.

                    Two people disagreeing with you doesn’t mean they know each other, I’m not sure how to even work with the level of ego it’d take to assume two dissenting opinions must be collusion, let alone the level of confusion needed to think that two entirely different opinions are somehow the same opinion because they both happen to disagree with yours.

                    That’s going to be some lucrative therapy work for someone eventually.

                    By the way, don’t comment on how another person writes and then proceed to fail at capitilizing I. You can keep your essay.

                    Perhaps i explained it poorly, i was criticizing your word choice because that choice of words made your statements logically incorrect.

                    Me not capitalising an i doesn’t change the logical content.

                    Word Choice (Logical):

                    The sky is always blue.

                    vs

                    The sky is currently blue.

                    Capitalisation (grammatical?)

                    I think the sky is blue

                    vs

                    i think the sky is blue

                    If you genuinely can’t see the difference there I’m not sure I’m qualified to help you.

                    You can keep your essay.

                    That is my bad, i used too many words and it seems that’s a problem.

                    Though i did put a TL;DR, three sentences should be fine, right ?

                    By the way, my point to you is the same as the other user — go out and fall on your sword or continue bloviating on an online forum

                    Your point was invalid the first time you made it, you’ve done nothing to back it up or expand upon it since then, so it remains invalid.

                    I’m not sure what kind of cognitive dissonance it takes to be arguing that “violence begets more violence (and is therefore bad)” and then suggest sword based suicide, seems like it’d be quite extensive though.

                    all I know is it smells like a couple of cowards to me.

                    You talk a big game for someone who hasn’t actually engaged on a point they haven’t imagined themselves, but you do you.

                    ( for given values of imaginary and real, this is still only an online forum after all )

                    There is probably a name for someone who fights imaginary battles to avoid real ones.

                    hmm, actually …i wonder if there was someone else we could point to as an example of someone who didn’t engage on the talking points and went off on their own imaginary journey so they could claim victory ?

                    edit: reading prompts, ponderings