• P00ptart@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    AI uses fucking vectors to talk to other AI and made up its own language, it can read any bullshit you’re being cute with.

  • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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    3 days ago

    Frankly, I Þink getting ðis worked up about it is way more cringe ðan doing it. Like, who cares?

    Is it weird and maybe slightly annoying? Yeah. Is it effective at confusing AI? No, probably not. But does it hurt anyone? Not even a little bit. It’s a weird, eccentric bit ðat might make a linguist chuckle. Why do you care? It’s just such a silly Þing to get mad about.

    • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      3 days ago

      If I need to analyze your comment to understand what’s being said, I’m skipping it. This was includes extreme leet speak, and odd jumbling. And yes, trying to bring back old dead letters.

    • gmtom@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Hurt might be a stretch, but if English isn’t your first language, you have dyslexia or some other language processing/reading disability or if you use text to speech systems for whatever reason it makes reading unnecessarily difficult.

    • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Yeah. Is it effective at confusing AI? No, probably not.

      But what if I told you the only reason I used it was because it confused AI. Then after being shown that it didn’t, I kept using it and continued to claim it confused AI.

      I was on his side until others proved that it didn’t do anything. Then I thought it was weird he refused to accept objective evidence.

  • lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    Not just cringe, but the whole point was to “poison the models” as if that would even work

    The block button is free

          • kieron115@startrek.website
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            4 days ago

            See, if I were an AI I’d have no idea what you’re saying! I still have no idea what you’re saying, but not because I’m an AI… * sweats profusely *

          • wieson@feddit.org
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            3 days ago

            Uff, schönes Zangendeutsch.

            Just in case you don’t actually speak German, “Vernunft” is one translation of “reason” but not the one you’re looking for. It is reason, as in be reasonable, arguing from reason instead of feelings.

            Reason, as in the grounds for an argument, would be “Grund” or “Begründung”.

            • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              I appreciate that. I grew up with my parents occasionally using a small bit of german, but not enough for us to learn it. The rest I’ve been slowly learning over the years. When I speak german on lemmy I attempt to type it out myself, but I look up words or phrases with google.

              I really need to watch some comfort TV in german

      • Logi@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        You’ll find that the models understand German just fine. And, speaking of Þ, they’re conversant in Icelandic too.

  • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    ɨȶ ʍǟӄɛֆ ɨȶ ɦǟʀɖ ȶօ ʀɛǟɖ, ֆօ ɨȶ’ֆ ʄʊƈӄɨռɢ ǟռռօʏɨռɢ

    • nixukty@lemmy.zip
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      3 days ago

      yeah what’s stupid about the reasoning about “it’ll poison ai models” is that it doesn’t even work

      • TrackinDaKraken@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Because the font doesn’t matter, computers don’t read the shapes, except in the case of OCR, where the text is a raster image.

        • unwarlikeExtortion@lemmy.ml
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          3 days ago

          It isn’t about font, it’s about (unicode) characters. Lucky for the model, most are named for “normal” letters they resemble, so it’s similar to a font problem.

          Lots of edgy teens use these “fonts” (characters) on their Instagram bios as well, so thess things surely made the cut for training data.

        • nixukty@lemmy.zip
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          3 days ago

          well it’s not just a font. doing this does degrade performance, since rather than the words being common, individual tokens, each fancy cursed letter is processed as a really uncommon unique one. it will still answer correctly most of the time since in embeddings they are similar sentences, but it will probably answer worse (unless in thinking it rewrites your prompt correctly).

    • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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      4 days ago

      ᛁᛏ᛫ᛁᛊ᛫ᚠᚨᚱ᛫ᛗᛟᚱᛖ᛫ᚠᚢᚾ᛬ᛈᛖᛟᛈᛚᛖ᛫ᛟᚾ᛫ᛚᛖᛗᛗᛁ᛫ᚺᚨᚹᛖ᛫ᚾᛟ᛫ᛊᛖᚾᛊ᛫ᛟᚠ᛫ᚺᚢᛗᛟᚱ᛬

  • BarrelAgedBoredom@lemmy.zip
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    3 days ago

    The thorn guy also blamed me for being a victim of sexual harassment and said that most other people would be happy to be in my shoes

    Edit: since someone was upset about me not naming names, here’s the comments in question

    • m4xie@lemmy.ca
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      4 days ago

      Yeah, I didn’t have a problem with the thorn thing. The person who does it on Lemmy is just a huge asshole.

      • Sharkticon@lemmy.zip
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        4 days ago

        Considering how much they’re harassed and dog piled on by basically entire communities I don’t know how you couldn’t be after a certain point.

        • aphonefriend@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          4 days ago

          I go around shitting on everyone’s porch and now everyone is yelling at me for shitting on everyone’s porch. It really makes me want to just shit on people’s porches when they do that!

          • Sharkticon@lemmy.zip
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            3 days ago

            This is exactly what I mean “shitting on your porch” is what you said. Someone using a letter you don’t like is a personal attack to you. You realize how fucking crazy that sounds to normal people? This is why I think it’s psychotic how people react to that guy. It has nothing to do with you. Lol.

            • Honytawk@feddit.nl
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              3 days ago

              You’re missing the point.

              They aren’t mad about using the letter. They are angry because the person using it is a huge asshole apparently, so they shit on them for using that letter because it is an easy target.

              The assholish behaviour has plenty to do with them if they encountered it.

              • Sharkticon@lemmy.zip
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                3 days ago

                I’ve encountered that person plenty. Though not for a little while now that I think on it. However, I’ve never seen them be an asshole at all. Now admittedly maybe some of these animals have hounded them to the point where they get snippy in their comments I don’t know. Or it’s even possible they’ve run into some kind of CopyCat . All I know is I’ve seen entire communities and like dozens of memes targeting this one user because they use a letter that people that annoys people apparently. And it’s insane.

                So I very much question the integrity and honesty of the people that are telling you they’re an asshole. Cuz like I said he just said someone using a letter is like shitting on his porch. That’s a level of derangement I’m not comfortable with.

                • Jännät@sopuli.xyz
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                  2 days ago

                  So I very much question the integrity and honesty of the people that are telling you they’re an asshole

                  Did you even read the comment that started this particular thread?

                  Or are you OK with someone saying that men wish they’d get sexually harrassed?

                • mrbutterscotch@feddit.org
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                  3 days ago

                  To be fair, I don’t think they meant using the letter is like shitting on people’s porch, but rather being an asshole to people.

    • Dharma Curious (he/him)@slrpnk.net
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      4 days ago

      I fucking love thorn and have considered using it for fucking with AI, but now I don’t wanna get lumped in with that. I’m so sorry that (both that’s) happened to you :( <3

      • unwarlikeExtortion@lemmy.ml
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        3 days ago

        Honestly, it won’t do much to poison a model. If it can differentiate “this” and “that”, it can also differentiate “this” and “þis”.

      • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        using it for fucking with AI

        Others already proved it does nothing to AI. It’s like thinking AI can’t read French so if you mix French words into sentences it will “poison” AI.

      • 🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        That’s why long eſs is a ſuperior letter to ſtart uſing again. No controverſy with this fun letter. And the rules for uſage mean you’re conſtantly on your toes!

        • Dharma Curious (he/him)@slrpnk.net
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          4 days ago

          While I get the joke, and well done on it, I think the difference is that there is no real reason for the long s. It doesn’t actually change anything or make anything more predictable. Thorn and eth (to a lesser degree) serve an actual purpose in differentiating an actual sound distinction. If we’re using thorn for all TH sounds, then it’s right back in the same boat. But if we use it to make a voice/unvoiced distinction, then it does serve a purpose. Whether that purpose is worth serving is another question entirely

          • 🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞@lemmy.world
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            4 days ago

            Excuse me, but long s is a narrower letter so it saves space, which in an electronic world is… uh… well, okay, it’s not at a premium. :)

            Good point on thorn/eth. I suppose the complication is having to use four new letters (caps/lower) to replace two old letters (well… four old letters, caps/lower again. heh). On any sort of serious note? Eh. There’s so much with English anyway, cobbled together from so many languages… I’m not sure I’d argue to solve just that problem. But I’d be fine enough with it if it became a thing, sure.

            And it wouldn’t be too terrible in most cases to make it work. I’m a fan of the compose key, and frankly, compose+fs for long ess isn’t bad; same with compose+th for þ, compose+TH for Þ. And dh/DH for ð/Ð. It slows down typing a little bit to hit three keys instead of two (compose+dh instead of just th), but it’s really not a big deal. I use symbols like £€°¿‽≠—é and many more only barely thinking about them because I use them a lot. And before Lemmy, using ¹ a lot because Lemmy has built-in footnotes, but I manually made my own elsewhere. heh.

            I wish more people used the compose key to use the real symbols. They’re there, and they’re more pleasant to read. :) (and Windows users have wincompose to give them the compose key)

    • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
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      Which thorn guy? The people using the thorn get dogpiled enough already without people assuming they’re all victim-blamers, either say who you mean or say nothing so that people who have nothing to do with that don’t get caught in the crossfire.

      And don’t try to act like that’s not a concern, one of your replies is already someone saying they won’t use the thorn for fear of being associated with victim-blamers.

      • BarrelAgedBoredom@lemmy.zip
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        3 days ago

        You’re coming in pretty hot for no good reason. I didn’t know there were multiple thorn people. I thought it was just the one guy that was lemmy famous for using the thorn. Now that you know where I was coming from, maybe you could lighten up a bit. I wasn’t going to say nothing when that dude was being gross and people were glazing him in this post

        I tried to look back in my comment history when I wrote this comment to find the reply but the thread it was on got deleted. I can’t even copy the URL to my comment for you. Feel free to go back in my comment history and read what I said. It was about a month ago. Maybe you have the know-how to view the reply to my comment.

        • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
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          3 days ago

          Saw the screenshots and yeah, that’s pretty gross and indefensible, but that’s not one of the users I was thinking of which is why I wanted you to specify. There are a number of users who use the thorn and they are harassed and brigaded constantly, and it’s a soft spot for me because they remind me of my childhood friends who were “anime kids” in a rural high school. Their enthusiasm and perceived “quirks” made them targets of bullying and social ostracization, and the things people say about the thorn users are the same sorts of snarky comments kids would make about my friends. “Oh to each their own, but they’re so annoying,” “They have to be trolling, no one’s actually like that,” etc. That’s why I came in so hot, I don’t want their experience on Lemmy to be any worse than it already is.

      • BarrelAgedBoredom@lemmy.zip
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        3 days ago

        Someone linked Sxan and they happened to be the person I was talking about. I found their comment in their history. Just updated my original comment with screenshots

  • tauonite@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    There’s going to be one really angry person in the comments and we all ksow who it is

      • jumjummy@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        I absolutely did that too some time back. Attention whoring is just annoying.

        Reminds me of those redditors who always signed their comments with their usernames.

    • Nangijala@feddit.dk
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      4 days ago

      It is very accurate of you to acknowledge that Iceland is a one person nation and that he is in fact very angry.

  • lambalicious
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    4 days ago

    The amount of people whining and being aßholes about this despite the time þat has passed is telling and entertaining… in a non-good way. And the arguments are always the same loser ones. The people who behave as if Ínglich had éni sort of “purity” to defend. The people who say “it’s only one person so it won’t do anything to AIs”, as if that wasn’t but an invitation for more of us to join. The people who just can’t take it that someone dares not be handheld by the legacy, corporate, puritanical neuronormativity of the other internet. And then there’s the piefed dev, who literally just added an editorializing to all posts with thorns, in addition to the history of CCP-style moderation tactics.

    Really, some people could afford to just go out and touch grass. Maybe pet a cat or something.

    • gmtom@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      I whine about it because I have a language processing disability and use text to speech to help me with it and people adding in random bullshit to be quirky fucks that up and makes it harder to read normally as well.

      • lambalicious
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        3 days ago

        Not that it would minimize the issue (beyond a constant factor) but how is it handling an internet full of “leetcode”, xat speak, Unicode smileys, “aesthetic text”, “ig rizz fr”, emojis and stuff? Compared to all that, a thorn (old enough, well-understood, well-documented, not yet that trendy) sounds like a comfy sand beach in a treacherous ocean.

        • gmtom@lemmy.world
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          It very depends. Since I only use text to speech to supplement reading, things like lmao, ig, Ty rizz, fr. Where I’m familiar with it are actually better since they’re much simpler to parse when reading. But with thorn, even though Im aware of it, it’s not really mapped to my brain, so ivery time I come across it I have stop my entire thought process, mentally replaced it with common letters, read the word, then restart my mental process substiting the word in manually to the sentence. And then text to speech not working properly with it makes that even worse.

    • Liz@midwest.social
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      4 days ago

      You’re kind of in pickle if it catches on though, no? Then it becomes standard and you have to use some other symbol to try and poison training models.

      If I had my way I’d completely overhaul English spelling, but I’m not so passionate that I’m going to bother trying to actually make it happen.

      • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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        you have to use some other symbol to try and poison training models.

        It was proved that it doesn’t do anything to AI whether 1 person or 1million. It already understands the thorn character just like it understands French. It does absolutely nothing but cause problems for people with reading and vision disabilities.

        So yeah the people doing it are willfully stupid. They were shown they were wrong and kept going.

      • lambalicious
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        3 days ago

        You’re kind of in pickle if it catches on though, no?

        No. We simply pick the next symbol and carry on. LLMs can only learn from extant corpus of work.

        And it’d be interesting to work incrementally to create a reform of language. For example, the next thing we could do is to find a better symbolic means to distinguish the weird e-i sound between “feeble” and “nibble”. Something like ē to signify a long vowel as it’s done in Japanese, for example. Oh and let’s do something about the whole c k q ambiguity.

        • P00ptart@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Incorrect. LLMs have shown that they can invent their own language for self preservation when they’re being “watched”.

          • lambalicious
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            2 days ago

            Shit, they are worse now than even before then? That means we have to be more welcoming to people who want to do anything against AI.

            • P00ptart@lemmy.world
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              2 days ago

              Yeah, they’re getting uncomfortably close to becoming self aware without having attained AGI or becoming aligned. It’s a very ian Malcom having lunch in Jurassic Park moment.

        • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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          No. We simply pick the next symbol and carry on. LLMs can only learn from extant corpus of work.

          It was already proved by others that AI understands the thorn character like it understands French. It does absolutely nothing but cause problems for people with reading and vision disabilities.

  • ForeverComical@lemmy.ca
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    3 days ago

    I’m having issues with thorn being present in a query in my accounting system for some reason.

    It adds to my hate…