According to the leaks posted elsewhere in this thread by marmite lover, they are using them for daily coordination and communication. Have you seen those? Have a look and tell me if you think they can be replaced as you suggest.
By having an organized structure where instructions are handed out by neighborhood captains to block captains, block captains to individuals, that sort of thing. I don’t want to reveal too much about how people do things in different areas, but I can tell you that these tactics are already in place in some cities and work "better* than the horizontalist group chat approach, although they are not mutually exclusive. If one person gets access to “the chat” without being vetted, their blast radius will most likely be contained to a block, as unvetted people don’t get to be neighborhood captains, etc etc.
Nothing is perfect, so you use this containment and organizational structure to limit the impact and likelihood of failures.
What we see with the big group chats etc is what happens when you are actually quite poorly organized, just taking your first stabs at it. It is what naturally happens when people don’t know what they are doing but organize organically, not understanding their threats or how to mitigate them, or cynically prioritizing any action at all over opsec because they do not have the capacity to organize properly. The latter basically sacrifices people for “the cause” and is more common than you might think.
Hmmm I notice they do have a role called “hyper local group messenger” perhaps that is like what you are describing. These screenshot are what he got after a few days of infiltration and he also mentions he was being followed around as a suspected ICE himself so presumably his cover was not very good and there could be more specific groups he didn’t get access to.
They have some amount of regional sub organization:
But you’re right if groups are reaching 1000 people it probably means things should be broken into smaller pieces.
Do you really think being secretive about the org structure has any security benefit? Hopefully they do not rely on obscurity of structure as it’ll eventually be discovered by enemies, if not already.
If your group has a better way than these MN people I hope it could be shared with them.
Yes, you should be secretive about org structure when the org is an active anti-fed tracking and disruption campaign (not even really an org). It isn’t hiding the structure of a communist org to its members, but rather the individuals who are part of the overall campaign. In reality, the people involved in the campaign are mostly not part of an org except in the most superficial of ways, doing assigned tasks, and cannot be expected to have either a political or tactical understanding to protect the wider group. Trainings are still essential, but this is not a cadre. You very strictly do not want all the “leaf” members of the org tree, community members, knowing the ins and outs of your org, let alone the active anti-fed campaign. They wouldn’t be able to do anything positive with it anyways. They can always talk to “nodes” a level up to increase their understanding and potential to become one themselves, a process that should have vetting.
Folks in Minneapolis are beginning to adopt better tactics over time, yes. They are more serious than in many other places.
To be clear, these organizing campaigns aren’t even just one org having a front org. They are a natural united front, made up of previously organized people and newly organized people, all figuring out how to work together with unified tactics. It is close to impossible to have a consistent cadre for something that is inherently ephemeral and so mixed. But it is a good development to have this greater level of hierarchical organization, as it will increasingly mean that this doesn’t need to be rebuilt every 2-3 years, it is no longer a temporary reaction, and we can think of it as part of an organization to join and build at any time.
According to the leaks posted elsewhere in this thread by marmite lover, they are using them for daily coordination and communication. Have you seen those? Have a look and tell me if you think they can be replaced as you suggest.
https://xcancel.com/camhigby/status/2015093523733733474
By having an organized structure where instructions are handed out by neighborhood captains to block captains, block captains to individuals, that sort of thing. I don’t want to reveal too much about how people do things in different areas, but I can tell you that these tactics are already in place in some cities and work "better* than the horizontalist group chat approach, although they are not mutually exclusive. If one person gets access to “the chat” without being vetted, their blast radius will most likely be contained to a block, as unvetted people don’t get to be neighborhood captains, etc etc.
Nothing is perfect, so you use this containment and organizational structure to limit the impact and likelihood of failures.
What we see with the big group chats etc is what happens when you are actually quite poorly organized, just taking your first stabs at it. It is what naturally happens when people don’t know what they are doing but organize organically, not understanding their threats or how to mitigate them, or cynically prioritizing any action at all over opsec because they do not have the capacity to organize properly. The latter basically sacrifices people for “the cause” and is more common than you might think.
Hmmm I notice they do have a role called “hyper local group messenger” perhaps that is like what you are describing. These screenshot are what he got after a few days of infiltration and he also mentions he was being followed around as a suspected ICE himself so presumably his cover was not very good and there could be more specific groups he didn’t get access to.
They have some amount of regional sub organization:
But you’re right if groups are reaching 1000 people it probably means things should be broken into smaller pieces.
Do you really think being secretive about the org structure has any security benefit? Hopefully they do not rely on obscurity of structure as it’ll eventually be discovered by enemies, if not already.
If your group has a better way than these MN people I hope it could be shared with them.
Yes, you should be secretive about org structure when the org is an active anti-fed tracking and disruption campaign (not even really an org). It isn’t hiding the structure of a communist org to its members, but rather the individuals who are part of the overall campaign. In reality, the people involved in the campaign are mostly not part of an org except in the most superficial of ways, doing assigned tasks, and cannot be expected to have either a political or tactical understanding to protect the wider group. Trainings are still essential, but this is not a cadre. You very strictly do not want all the “leaf” members of the org tree, community members, knowing the ins and outs of your org, let alone the active anti-fed campaign. They wouldn’t be able to do anything positive with it anyways. They can always talk to “nodes” a level up to increase their understanding and potential to become one themselves, a process that should have vetting.
Folks in Minneapolis are beginning to adopt better tactics over time, yes. They are more serious than in many other places.
To be clear, these organizing campaigns aren’t even just one org having a front org. They are a natural united front, made up of previously organized people and newly organized people, all figuring out how to work together with unified tactics. It is close to impossible to have a consistent cadre for something that is inherently ephemeral and so mixed. But it is a good development to have this greater level of hierarchical organization, as it will increasingly mean that this doesn’t need to be rebuilt every 2-3 years, it is no longer a temporary reaction, and we can think of it as part of an organization to join and build at any time.
ty i am understanding what you say