(FYI I’m a confirmed, happily life-long-lapsed catholic as a legal adult, so ban me if you want, but this isn’t just some rando agnostic rant. I’m not the type to make a habit of trolling. it’s just, your organization sucks, and it’s sad there’s so many of you, and it’s sad you choose to clog up our limited server space with your junk, but hey, do your thing, I’m not here to say you shouldn’t be here, I’m just saddened that you catholics exist at all anymore!)
I mean, I don’t really care to have an answer as to why they care- that’s not really the point of my post. if you know why they care and you agree, then, wow! it’s ok you and your generation will all be dead eventually, and the window will shift slowly but surely away from your nonsense as it has for a while now
i wonder how much more time you would have for living like jesus- how much more time you could and would spend helping feed the hungry and housing the homeless, comforting the sick-
i wonder how much more time you would spend doing what you claim is the most important thing in life if you didn’t spend so much time worrying about if other people are being good catholics, and dictating with legislation if other people have to act like good catholics, rather than living by example which - i’m pretty sure - is how you’re supposed to act as a catholic, not by dictating to others that they MUST do the right thing or else they’re a criminal
yikes
anyway, happy solstice, transphobes! your bishops could be like 'make sure you spend extra time this cold holiday season helping the less fortunate among you who need food and shelter, and instead their organization is using its voice to… i dunno, you tell me if spending your holidays gathering signatures for a ballot initiative that dictates biological gender standards for children’s sports competitions sound like radical, unconditional love
does it sound like jesus to teach children to worry about who is better than the others at arbitrary competition? i’ll go ahead- nope, sure doesn’t! sure sounds like that’s just a whole lot of completely inconsequential bullshit compared to oh i dunno people starving, or hey how about starving children? sorry starving children of washington state! these awesome catholics chose to spend some time worrying about dictating who you compete against in shit that totally doesnt matter, instead of using the might and obscene wealth of their organization to systematically make sure every single one of you was well fed. theyre out here latching onto (the wrong side if you consider what they claim to believe) a political wedge issue (as if it benefits them when the population is divided), using their platform as champions of love to help some republican party hacks steal elections with manufactured outrage
y’all are just so embarrassing and somehow you go along like you don’t even know it
also to the ‘oh but im not transphobic-’ nope, shut up. you give this organization money? the catholic church? you’re part of the problem, you’re supporting them. and if you’re not actively changing their stance, then you’re condoning it, plain and simple!
(‘peace and grace’ my ass, you rabble rouser)
EVERYONE ENJOY THE LONGER DAYS!
Both initiatives will serve to facilitate more public funding into private (religious) schools through charters. It’s rather indirect, but both would degrade public education, which is a win for the private industry, religious or not.
If I were to wager, that’d be mine.
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It is as simple as Men are not Women even if they are gender dysphoric and dress up as women or mutilate castrate themselves.
People need to stop welcoming illogical ideologies and brainrot. Mentally Ill people need psychiatric treatment whether they recognize their illnesses or not.
I’m not from Washington State, so I’m not familiar with the particular issues and you do state “I don’t really care to have an answer…” so I probably am not going to be much help to you but I do want to recognize that the Catholic Church is not a single-issue organization. The purpose of the Catholic Church is the salvation of souls and what makes salvation is a function what is good. Her idea of good is established by teaching handed down through the ages, from the time of the Apostles (or before), along with the aid of certain respected philosophers and theologians.
You do not like the Church’s interference in political issues related to gender but I suspect you have no problem with the work the Church is doing for immigrants during their difficult time. The Church can focus on more than one issue. It is impossible to take a stance on something and not offend someone. You are upset at the Church on gender issues. Others are upset at her providing food and sleeping bags to the homeless who live in the local park. If someone has a problem with these works, that’s just too bad. The Catholic Church isn’t going to stop being Catholic to gain favor with one person or another.
I appreciate your courage to be disliked.
You’re not the super-best defender of your faith, never mind against the specific things I was mentioning, so I’ll try to be polite.
to gain favor with one person or another
there’s what, a billion christians in the world who are not catholic? about one person in the world for every catholic who knows allllll about catholicism, but said ‘hey wait a second…’ to at least part of the whole thing, and still chooses to try to live like jesus, just not be catholic, risking going to hell. I’d say that’s a few more than ‘one person or another’ who thinks it’s great that y’all are so married to your faith, but it has serious flaws, flaws that don’t say wonderful things about the god catholics worship, nor consequently the catholics themselves.
you are upset at the church on gender issues
you can have all the gender issues you want! but now you’re making them official church policy, and you’re making endorsing LAWS public church policy, and that’s a nice slice of nonsense if you want to continue to be governed and regulated like a church where people go to discuss faith in things unseen, not a political organization using their property for and captive audiences to gather signatures
please don’t attempt to muddy the waters with conflating actively pushing legislation to providing sleeping bags to cold people, or helping immigrants with shelter from a government the church is actively aligning on with issues like gender regulations for children’s sports results (helping fix problems you’re helping create in the first place isn’t a great argument)
purpose of the church is the salvation of souls
the purpose of the church jesus would have started is for everyone to commiserate about how awesome it would be if everyone was nice to each other all the time, but how impossible that is. the rest is window dressing. it’s to recognize love’s awesome power in the face of despair, it’s to instill in people that living like this jesus fellow is probably something awesome to aspire to be, because that’s how you ‘save souls’
I have this discussion with jehovah’s witnesses who show up at my door. god wants you out here shilling for your church? really? i’m pretty sure god wants you feeding the poor. i dont care if some of you in your congregation are already doing that, im pretty sure he wants all of you doing that, all the time, until there’s no one left to feed, and then you can move onto clothing and housing and the rest of the things neighbors need. you know what your neighbors dont need? you telling them how great your church is, or how i should be a member. you get members BY EXAMPLE you dont go bother people about it
and you sure don’t go around as an organization telling other people how they should live, which is what gathering signatures to get a law passed is
it’s impossible to take a stance and not offend someone
the catholic church doesn’t take stances. you’re either living like jesus would, or you’re not. it’s pretty simple, actually, and it’s a super easy way to tell a real christian from one in name only. unfortunately what happens is the people who run your church use its dogma and doctrine to convince members it’s ok to do things that aren’t living like jesus would, for various reasons. now, I guess since y’all have a pope, you can have stances, and they are the official position of catholicism and your god. the fact that these stances so often are total opposites of “radical compassion” and anything that jesus would have wanted, said or encouraged is probably a reason why for every person who claims to be a catholic, there’s another who claims to be christian, but not catholic. but what do I know
anyway. I just figured the church was so hurting for members that you’d finally stopped the anti-trans nonsense. but hey enjoy your continued slide into obscurity, and totally thanks for helping to further divide americans to further your own selfish interests, rather than help unite us with love against this transphobic hate. if trends over the last few hundred years mean anything, whatever humanity chooses as replacements for a much needed sense of community wont be you :shrug:
You’re not the super-best defender of your faith
I’ll agree to that. I am just a guy. Nothing special about me. I don’t even know why anyone would care about my opinion about anything at all.
Are you sincerely interested in being a disciple of Jesus, conforming your life to his teachings in every way, and spending time each day with Christ in mental prayer, walking with him through his ministry, his passion, his death, and his resurrection? Do you want all this and consider that the Catholic Church only part-way meets this end?
Or do you find it convenient to try to disparage Catholics simply because you do not like some of the things the Catholic Church promotes and you find it convenient to argue we are lacking in our own ideals?
Your answer shapes how I think about how to best give a reply to your concerns. What do you want your relationship with Jesus to be?
I guess I didnt make it clear that Im glad anyone of any faith or belief has a place to congregate and discuss and be a part of the greater community here, and that I didn’t post to randomly insult you. Ive said my peace about how I think it’s happy, comfortable, willful cognative dissonence to say what you believe and then act how you do, I think it’s insulting the arrogance with which you treat people who do not believe what you believe, or people who know something different in their heart just as much as you can know anything in yours. My post was because Im tired of people using this radically compassionate figure to justify actions that have nothing to do with loving your neighbors. Im tired of people telling me to follow their faith when theyre not even doing a good job of it themselves. Its downright silly you expect anyone to listen to you, yet you act as if your belief gives you license to act this way. It’s disappointing you think you can get away with claiming to follow jesus and then act the way you do. My relationship with the jesus i was taught exists is just fine, imho you might want to check yours 🤷
If the god you think exists really does, and they are exactly how the catholic faith as you see it describes, I wouldnt want to worship them. If the god as I understand the bible and christianity tries to describe it exists, then the path to salvation (or whatever) is simply by living like jesus. no preaching, no judging, just compassion. there are no other litmus tests for “entering heaven” no oaths or pledges or weekly meetings- if you think anything beyond living a thoughtful life is important then, wow, I guess
anyway, with the trying to describe supporting anti-trans legislation as just “some of the things the church promotes” … yeah, your transphobic organization sucks. enjoy the rest of the holidays
You did not insult me and I am glad you are willing to have this conversation. At the end of it, I think the fundamental difference is there is something you see as being good that we see as being bad. I wouldn’t want you to do something you think is bad, so I understand why you feel the way you do. And I feel like you are comfortable enough with me having the convictions to follow my own conscience. Where we disagree, and where we have room to discuss further, if the conversation was going to continue, is what is moral or immoral about the issues that are the reason we are having this conversation. I will say, however, if you read Scripture, Jesus did preach & judge. It is just a question of who would be subject to that preaching and judgement today.
Nope. I don’t think you understand; there is no conversation to be had.
Imagine youre trying to have a discussion with someone. And then they say “well we know God gave mice magical powers to hold everything down on the Earth and that’s what you call gravity” and no matter what you say, or how much you’re sure that’s probably not true, theyre certain of it, and anything you provide as logic or reason is ignored.
That’s what it’s like talking to you. You’re not interested in being part of the common collective- you’re right, and we’re wrong, and your supposed truth is absolute. That being the case, why on earth would you think I would ever want to try to have a conversation with you? How interested are you in questioning your faith? Oh, perfectly comfortable, because there’s nothing anyone could ever say or do to change what you believe? …see?!
I came here to point out the contradiction in your professed beliefs, and to rage about your religion abusing its protected status as a nongovernmental entity to push transphobic, population dividing legislation. And I guess Im not surprised youre so completely in your own world that you havent taken any of this as an insult, as that’s kind of the whole problem
Anyway seriously im not trying to get banned but, dude, really, I cant walk away with you so seriously misunderstanding just how completely either brainwashed and duped, willfully ignorant, just plain selfish, or combination thereof you are- all catholics are- to be so blindly proud of something so many other people can recognize for what it is. It’s cute until you start telling me my business, and how I should live, and at that point “but my god said” is no longer a cute defense for your quirky behavior; it’s offensive transphobia and you can all go fuck yourselves for thinking “because my super nice and all loving manifestion of love we call god said we should pass these laws” is a valid excuse or reason for literally anything- the rest of us are trying to have a functioning community here and youre hiding behind unconditional love while giving support to hateful legislators pushing population dividing laws
your club sucks, and mostly because of the arrogance with which you conduct your entire thing. No, to reply to what you were trying to say- good and bad arent relative; love is not subjective- hearing stories of jesus as a kid, ignoring political and religious boundaries to point out love is universal helped teach me that! and a bunch of the shit you do in the name of jesus “because the church says so” clearly isnt in the name of love, but you dont really care about that, just obeying your human masters and their contorted, twisted rules, and belonging to your openly transphobic club
Please stop trying to defend- I’m not interested. Supporing transphobic legislation is not unconditional, radical love, and quite the opposite. Any formal organization that does so is shit in my book, period, and has a problem with me when they do it in my neighborhood
You say you don’t want to have a conversation, but your persistence is evidence against this. When addressing the Catholic view of anything, none of it is one-dimensional. We can discuss dogmas, sure, but there are several different competing schools of philosophy, historic analysis, pragmatism, and how these things impact modern culture, science, law, etc. Large swaths of Catholic philosophy do not require Catholic dogma to stand on its own and much of what you don’t like is rooted in philosophy more than it is in dogma.
You don’t want me telling you how to live, that’s fine. I’m not. But you don’t live in a vacuum. People are going to tell you how to live. People are going to make laws for you and they are going to enforce them, like them or not.
If Catholics achieve some level of political power, enough to enact some laws, maybe your best bet is to learn to argue your point with a Catholic. To give you an example on a topic different from the one that brought your concerns here, we have the historic example of St. Thomas Aquinas arguing for the tolerance of prostitution. For someone who wants to not regulate certain internet websites, turning to the example of Aquinas might be a source of argument against internet regulation.
Throwing your hands up in the air and saying Catholics should not have political power is not very pragmatic.
The history of the Church is deep. If you want to argue something about biological males who identify as female participating in sports designated for females, come up with an argument. Just telling us we shouldn’t exist isn’t going to get you anywhere.
