Honestly, I agree with @StillNoLeftLeft@hexbear.net
Ok fair enough, but I wouldn’t have installed Linux if I had not seen it recommended.
I’m not a computer toucher, but I can follow written advice.
These sorts of posts always scold anyone giving out actual solutions just so being miserable can continue. This cultural thing almost has an end of history type vibe to it. It’s also pretty hostile to divergent and often solution focused neurotypes.
Linux evangelism kinda makes sense, no one is spending billions on marketing and ads for it. I think Linux evangelists should ask about use cases first, instead of just posting a generic “use Linux”.
They’re not a computer toucher
Yes you are. There is no one in the modern world who does not regularly use a computer. That’s like saying “My car broke down, but I’m not a car toucher so I’m just going to complain instead of getting a new one.” Or “I’m not an appliance toucher and I don’t want to learn a new toaster so I’m just going to keep the one that smokes if it is set on 2.”
This is not an excuse. Choosing to be ignorant is how you get mistakes like Windows 11 in the first place. So I will continue to proselytize Linux until people understand there is a better option and that they can demand better.
This, I don’t want to rag on anyone ranting, but at some point not learning a bit about the powerful devices that run many aspects of the world and your life and that you likely spend hours a day on is just incuriousness
I’m not saying everyone needs to be 1337 haxx0r assembly coder, but knowing basic terms(I’m sure a lot of people here have done tech support for older family and become incredibly frustrated, and heard stuff like ‘what’s a folder?’ or referring to a browser as ‘the internet’) and how to trouble shoot should be common knowledge
But for real accept the solution folks. It makes things better.Maybe it’s a work computer and it’s not their choice
I wonder how many just commented without even reading.
Asking for Linux at work can succeed too.
All my coworkers are either my age or older; If I asked for Linux and they installed it, my coworkers would beat me to death with their now entirely alien computers
Did they say the comic countered every single example? There were many that the comic is applicable to. And to be honest, even in many work contexts, there’s room to “push” for Linux as a solution.
No, but if you have to use Windows for work, you should be able to complain about it.
Use Linux
I can’t, that’s the point.
There’s always a solution
I wonder if you commented that without reading
It’s not fair to change the OP
Bug your IT dept to let you remote into your Wondows box from your Linux machine?
I did that, they wanted me to get a writeup for them since they couldn’t figure out how to get strongswan configured and a decent RDP connection established on Linux.
freerdp and some nmcli bash scripts saved me lol. Now I run one command to connect to a work PC with all my monitors then kill the connection to jump back into Linux. Even got drive bindings with USB and printer passthrough working
The comic did not say people shouldn’t be allowed to complain about stuff. In fact, I’ve seen nobody here say that.
Yeah but like what. What OS level stuff do you futz around with on a work computer unless you’re in some sort of rinkydink-operation where everybody has full admin rights.
Don’t mind me RDPing into my work machine to… open Outlook
how is this a windows fault. you could RDP into your work machine to open Thunderbird and that’d still suck?
Or use Outlook 365 or whatever the web version is called. So the bottleneck is really “will the IT dept allow it?”
What the fuck are you winning with using MS O365 on non-windows here. Like the web version especially is mostly OS-agnostic and if youre entire job is that I come back to my original question: What OS-Level bullshit is plaguing you
I don’t see it as “winning” or “losing”. Use what you want.
I think a ton of the friction behind switching is just fear of change. If your job is emails and Teams calls that can be handled on whatever Linux distribution you prefer. So it’s a question of training and support.
Large companies should be leaving Microsoft for most non-server & non-dev roles just to save money, but people have to be ok touching a computer that isn’t blessed with Microsoft or Apple OSs
☝️ this right here. There’s a reason Linux nerds always tell you to try Linux.
Ok fair enough, but I wouldn’t have installed Linux if I had not seen it recommended.
I’m not a computer toucher, but I can follow written advice.
These sorts of posts always scold anyone giving out actual solutions just so being miserable can continue. This cultural thing almost has an end of history type vibe to it. It’s also pretty hostile to divergent and often solution focused neurotypes.
Seeing an increasing number of these “giving advice is rude, actually” takes
Maybe they’re not a computer toucher
yes, because this is an innate, likely genetic trait, you are born with, and not like, a skill you could acquire. It’s like I call an electrician every time I have to replace a lightbulb, I’m just not an electricity toucher.
ppl almost seem proud to make ignorance a core part of their identity, like its an unalterable genetic trait or something.
Imagine a kid just being like: “nope, I could learn how to pee in the toilet, but I refuse to learn. I’m a kitchen-counter pisser and proud of it. Deal with it.”
That’s almost the level of proudly ignorant stubborness from windows users.
ppl almost seem proud to make ignorance a core part of their identity, like its an unalterable genetic trait or something.
To me, this doesn’t seem to be ignorance so much as just figuring you’re done with learning. Be a great way to explain most of older people, too.
I’m not a water toucher, I need a plumber to turn the faucet on and off every time I need to wash my hands.
I uber eat literally every calorie on account of not being a kitchen toucher
i have actually met someone that does that! they said that they “didn’t know how to cook” so just got takeout twice per day
from the internet
where recipes live
To be fair most internet recipes suck ass. They mostly presuppose you have a working kitchen and not the landlord special. Also most are just that, single recipes, where you don’t get taught how to use up the rest in a home ec sense.
That said: If you think you cannot figure out how to prepare meal from ingredient you’ve lost the plot
To be fair most internet recipes suck ass. They mostly presuppose you have a working kitchen and not the landlord special
i just add “simple” or “one pot” to the end when i’m looking for a new recipe to try out, usually works out for me
Also most are just that, single recipes, where you don’t get taught how to use up the rest in a home ec sense.
fair, though that’s a skill you can pick up really quickly
i just add “simple” or “one pot” to the end when i’m looking for a new recipe to try out, usually works out for me
I’d argue it’s mostly the cook times if you follow them. All my landlord special kitchens had 0 heat control bar on/off which makes medium low heat tedious at best.
fair, though that’s a skill you can pick up really quickly
I don’t think that’s true but in the sense of it being sort of treatbrained where you refuse to eat the slop (positive).
I think using up the rest must come with experience. There are so many different items you could have lying around and so many different preferences for what might taste good that a cook just has to build up knowledge over time about what to do with that half-an-onion remaining after a recipe, or how to repurpose the leftover pasta.
It’s an absolutely essential practice we should all learn how to develop, but it’s also beyond the scope of a recipe and more something you learn by experimentation, cookbooks/theory, and community
It’s an absolutely essential practice we should all learn how to develop, but it’s also beyond the scope of a recipe and more something you learn by experimentation, cookbooks/theory, and community
I disagree very, very politely here in that I think teaching people how to make recipes with like 3/4 of an onion leftover is bad compared to teaching them home ecoomoics
So if a recipe leaves 3/4ths of an onion over, what do they do with the onion?
We westoids are so disconnected from the processes of actually producing things that very few people know shit about fuck regarding how things we use every day work. It’s rare to find someone knowledgeable about fixing or modifying even one category of thing.
OK but install Linux.
Folks, we got a Strigidae to use Linux, you can switch!
What distro do u like?
Mint because it’s easy and I’m dumb
Now you’re speaking my language
Install Linux!
Okay which one.
Devolves into a 300 comment thread which is impossible to follow for the person who is just trying to use their computer for games and email"
To be fair, most distros are fine and relatively easy to install. The same kind of user that needs a Linux nerd to help them choose isn’t going to notice the subtle differences between them on a daily basis. Also, if the user doesn’t like the experience of one, they can just switch to something else.
Yeah that’s a real problem. There is not enough consensus between Linux users and evangelists on which distros to recommend to someone who is Linux-curious.
Another issue is that they start recommending distros without asking about use cases first.
I use Linux and I’m still confused about Linux. It’s just not the out of the box one sized fits all solution that Microsoft and Apple offer. Someday I think someone will package and maintain such a thing and arguably some have but…for widespread adoption is has to be simpler than it is.
There are already projects that try to be a much more complete package while also being as hassle free as possible like the UBlue and Bazzite projects.
UBlue and Bazzite projects.
The Linux fan has a one-size-fits-all solution, but with typical tech dork extravagance, they have two of them.
LMAOO. Tbf Bazzite is part of UBlue, its just that it is big enough to be mentioned lol
I don’t think we will ever see a consolidation of Free Software operating systems. Individual people’s use cases differ. Some people favor security, some people favor the latest features. Some people have powerful workstations and want to flex them while others have older computers or battery-powered devices and want something light-weight. Other people specifically require compatibility with antiquated software or hardware, whether for nostalgia reasons, neccessity, or because they work for a kulak who is too cheap to spring for an inventory system from this century. Others still are tied to a specific software stack, like the popular pfSense firewall which is tightly integrated with the FreeBSD network stack. Things like this inevitably lead to software configurations which are mutually exclusive. There is no such thing as one size fits all (though virtual machines go a long way towards mitigating this).
An operating system is a complex piece of technology. It’s like a car. They’ve all got engines and tires, but do you need? A sedan, a pickup, a van, a bus, a dump truck? A lot of people don’t give a shit if it’s a Mazda or a Toyota, but they still have to choose one or the other, even after narrowing their search down to cheap sedan which can plausibly reach 200k. There are differences between a Toyota Camry and a Mazda Protege if you are discerning or care about it, but a lot of people get hung up on this when they don’t even know what to look for and someone says “here try this, it has a steering wheel, a gas pedal, brakes, power windows, two roomy cup holders, and the replacement parts are relatively cheap.”
The breadth of choices available in Free Software operating systems is a reflection of the material conditions created by decades of consumer electronics production. Operating systems like Windows and MacOS are designed to sell new devices. They are not deeply concerned with technical debt, or keeping 10+ year old machines running. Free Software operating systems don’t have the privilege of shipping on new hardware, or the power to impose standards and consistency on hardware vendors like CPU architecture, firmware standards, minimum screen resolutions, graphical capabilities, memory availability, input methods, physical ports, etc. The task at hand is much broader. Anywhere there is a substantial amount of tech threatened by obsolescence, there is a motive to give it a second life. Anywhere there is “obsolete” tech and a lack of the productive means or the finances to replace it, there is a material need to make adaptations with whatever is available. This happens from the level of second-hand gaming PCs in the imperial core all the way down to the shoe-string computers and mobile devices in the global south. These adaptations don’t always involve just wiping the thing and installing Linux, but there are enough cases where this is the first step.
Mint. Just get Mint. It’s so easy. If I can do it anyone can.
You are definitely smarter than the average owl
The standard reference owl also suggests Mint!
The problem is I don’t like mint, the plant, so I can’t use mint, the linux
Does it help that the default, best flavor of Linux Mint is Cinnamon?
I also don’t like cinnamon
Guess you’re stuck with unflavored Debian then.
Daww shucks
Wait a minute… OWLS ARE STUPID
The correct answer is any literally atomic fedora distro. This will be consensus in approximately 1 and a half years, quote me on this.
I agree, Atomic is clearly the future for desktop Linux, there’s enough tools already to circumvent most of its limitations too.
sorry but 2027 is already scheduled to be the year of the hurd desktop
I am always bound to ask, how is this different from any other decision we make in our lives. how did you pick this Lemmy instance? it’s the same thing
They only think we’re obnoxious for the same reasons they think vegans are obnoxious. Because we’re right.
When I say “use linux” I’m not just saying “use linux”, I’m saying “use the GPL FOSS ecosystem of software, stop supporting the massive tech companies making all of computing actively worse”
Especially since most of the time people aren’t complaining about windows being accidentally bad, but about windows being actively hostile to the user in a way FOSS will never be, lacking the profit motive.
Of course a dipshit kkkracker dudebro would say this.
Tech treatlerites all the way down. Once they see their treats getting soggy they want to whine and complain without actually doing anything about it.
I would tell these people to shut the fuck up. If X doesnt work then we have to fucking make it work. Its building a computing revolution youre not going to just have to “believe” in it.
This whole “complaing about evangelizing” shit really pisses me the fuck off because its the same chud shit used against socialism, veganism and any other social revolution.
“Sometimes people want to complain about capitalism”
“Stop evangelizing Marxism we just want to complain”
See how annoying that sounds? Thats how all these treatlerites sound like.
comrades, is it white to use windows?
No, I was referring to the kkkracker behavior of choosing to be complacent.
People complain about windows as if Microsoft is actually going to feel bad for them. Complaining about windows is useless, Microsoft knows its fucking its users over in exact detail.
People have been complaining about windows but still shoveling its shit since windows 7 and its tiring to keep hearing this capitalist nostalgia for the “good old times” when these people clearly have zero respect for people who do any actual change and instead call us annoying evangelists who should shut up.
You dont use windows, you are forced into it by a capitalist, neoliberal society.
Sometimes I’ll complain about something because it feels good to voice my frustration about something, even if I know that complaint won’t change the situation.
I have a lot of respect for people who use and maintain FOSS–I use quite a bit of it myself and was daily driving GrapheneOS on my phone until recently, and LineageOS before that. But I think referring to people who are comfortable with the OS they’re using as whining treatlerites isn’t super productive and I can’t say it makes me any likelier to increase the amount of FOSS in my daily life.
At this point you’re just asking me to be polite to people who refuse to change, and then expect people to care about their complaints while calling them annoying.
“They used to like it, they used to be comfortable” no they were just being fucking played and now MS will turn up the heat until they burn. No one likes windows, you were never given a choice to.
Nobody would even be having this conversation if the people accusing others of being “evangelist” would actually look at the bigger picture and not their own pity.
and I can’t say it makes me any likelier to increase the amount of FOSS in my daily life
Then don’t. If being called mean names makes you reject a progressive social movement then thats your call. See you in windows 12 I’m done with this conversation because its the same one each and every time.
You’re 100% correct. I’ve been daily driving some flavor of Linux for nearly 20 years, since way, way before it was even half as good as it is now to use on the desktop. I am sympathetic to hospitals, pharmacies, and other institutions where the grip of Windows and other crusty, proprietary systems on the various equipment and processes they require is virtually iron-tight and genuinely the difference between life or death for the patients under care. I have no sympathy for everyday desktop users who complain like this and simply don’t want to change. In a lot of ways free software (specifically A/GPL software) is the closest thing we have to genuine Marxist principles in action in our current mode of living, and if someone doesn’t want to pick up on that and support it then I can only guess what they’ll think about what the rest of the world needs to go through on the way to “fully automated luxury gay space communism”…
The issue with Linux is once you switch, you’re so impressed and happy with the OS that you turn into an evangelist overnight.
But I agree it’s not as simple to just switch.
It’s actually surprisingly easy to switch now if you don’t have any super specific software that you need Windows for. Even then it’s gotten easy to set up virtual windows containers to run those specific programs.
There’s so many distros out there that everyone can find an existing, well maintained one, that comes with all the features they want. I know that people who aren’t Windows power users find the switch to Linux virtually stress free and painless. Anyone who does technical stuff on Windows is usually able to pretty quickly transition to a POSIX shell and get the bonus of not having the bloated, broken registry system of Windows for configuration.
Adobe, ESRI, Autodesk (anything that’s super integrated into the .NET windowing system) are really the only big ones that make switching hard for some people. Games and stuff basically just work now thanks to Proton and the fact that AI workloads are usually run on a Linux server so NVIDIA has had to make it easier to use their Linux drivers.
I agree however I mean not easy to just switch as in cases where users are on windows for work or school, any other case switching is optimal
That was the second part of my post, there are cases where it’s inevitable that you’re gonna have to use Windows, but I also know that IT teams at big companies are at their breaking point with Microsoft and it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if institutions start migrating over the coming years.
One of the biggest infractions I’ve seen recently (besides the updates that totally broke recovery) was forced injection of ChatGPT into an update that essentially created a massive legal and security vulnerability for anyone using the latest update.
Legal firms, medical institutions, and companies with secure data protocols all suddenly had users that got AI integration directly into their OS that was straight up reading sensitive internal documents and funneling that data back to Microsoft for a few days until it was caught and shut down.
That alone is enough to make those institutions start to think about continuing to use Microsoft products and will make the already vocal calls from IT to make the switch much easier to justify.
i wouldnt have become a communist if not the annoying reddit socdems who would turn any post into a conversation about Bernie Sanders like he was the next Lenin
The most sacred right to a liberal is to complain.
I am not a computer toucher but I am also not a sucker who is going to subject his hard drive to auto ingestion by an LLM or have ads baked into his OS, so rather than upgrade to W11 I’m just saying fuck it and flashing my laptop with Mint, because someone told me one time it would be pretty easy to interact with. I’m sure I will figure it out, and if it sucks there are a bunch of other flavors to try.
smdh my dick head, heathens keep ignoring the glorious option that is TempleOS
Wasn’t that the guy that would say slurs on stream all the time?
Yeah, he had some really bad tourettes and some other psychosis stuff. I’m not sure how much of what he said was his actual serious opinions and how much was the ramblings of a man who thought God was telling him to write an OS.
Heard he was a great programmer ‘lost in the sauce’ as the kids call it.
slurs
I am constantly mildly annoyed that he was the one who coined the term “glowing” to refer to
before ruining it by associating it with a ton of slurs. It would be a great term for them if he didn’t ruin it 
Broken Windows Fallacy
