• Rustling Leaves@slrpnk.net
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    1 day ago

    Yes, though not always as accessible.

    The problem with electric cars is two fold as far as I understand it:

    • The electricity it uses is not sustainable.
    • It has lots of tracking etc and in some cases remote control.
    • milkisklim@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      While the power source that generated the electricity is not necessarily sustainable, power plants should have more at scale Features to limit the pollutants than a traditional petrol engine.

      Or at least the power plants should if one lives in a civilized society…

      • Hegar@fedia.io
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        1 day ago

        civilized society

        I’m sorry sir but such a thing does not exist, I fear you must have dreamed it.

    • 18107@aussie.zone
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      1 day ago

      Tracking is not unique to electric cars, just new cars.

      Large power stations are more efficient than small engines.
      Many electric car owners also have solar panels.

      Refining enough fuel to transport an average car 100km uses enough energy to transport an average electric car 50km. That’s just refining, not including searching for or collecting the oil, or transporting the fuel to fuel stations.
      It’s so much electricity that most oil refineries have dedicated coal or gas power stations.

      As long as you are only considering cars, electric cars are superior in almost every way, and are constantly getting better.

      A diesel bus is still better than an electric car (although an electric bus would be better still). Trains and trams would be ideal, but require more upfront cost, so are easier for lazy or corrupt politicians to oppose.

      • Rustling Leaves@slrpnk.net
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        21 hours ago

        Good point about tracking being a newer car problem.

        Sadly where I live busses are not accessible to me since:

        • They are infrequent.

        • They do not have a ‘live map’ so make me extremely anxious since I don’t know where I am nor where to stop the bus.

        • Log in | Sign up@lemmy.world
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          18 hours ago

          Where I’m from, in the UK, there’s a lot of wind power because it’s cheaper and the labour government of 97-2010 invested in it.

          So electricity is greenest and cheapest overnight, so my car knows to charge itself starting when the cheap overnight electricity tariff kicks in. I save about 80% over what I used to party for petrol.

          I do not miss going to the petrol station one bit.

          Yes Nissan have my car’s location all the while but otherwise they wouldn’t be able to report it to me via the app. And I trust them much more than I trust Google and Google not only knows where I and my phone are all the time, they also know what apps I use for how long and if I accidentally press the button their assistant gets to see a screenshot. Worrying that Nissan know where I parked the car doesn’t compare.

          Anyway, it’s just the most fun to drive car I’ve ever driven. So much acceleration! So smooth!

    • schnokobaer@feddit.org
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      1 day ago

      The problem with EVs is that in almost all ways other than local pollution they are just as bad as ICE vehicles. They

      • need massive amounts of asphalted space for roadways and parking
      • use this space very inefficiently and cause traffic congestion at any given spike in traffic
      • drive urban sprawl and thus make housing less sustainable (more sewage,water supply, electric supply, heating, roads/person required)
      • urban sprawl stretches everything far apart and makes public transit much less feasible so people who can’t drive cars struggle to get places, for example kids can’t walk to school or take public transit, instead must be driven
      • are loud (because tyres rolling is the driving source of noise)
      • are dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists
      • their dangers and tendency to cause traffic congestion inhibit other, more efficient and sustainable modes of transport so that when not regulated properly, they take over all of the streetscape as is evident in most western places
      • nucleative@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        This is a general complaint about vehicles, not necessarily EVs, and extends to trucks, motorcycles, and basically anything that gives humans more range than their feet.

        This position would probably be best directed at the city planning office.

        • schnokobaer@feddit.org
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          18 hours ago

          This is a general complaint about vehicles, not necessarily EVs

          Yes, that’s like the whole point of my post, being E doesn’t fix 90% of the issues caused by individual motorised transport vehicles. And city planning can’t do anything about these inherent issues either, they can merely decide to make good, sustainable cities or car friendly cities. Good city planning policies stand in direct contrast to the amount of cars expected to be driven.

          And I’m saying this not to shit on EVs, they must clearly replace ICE vehicles as soon as possible, but to warn that they will not fix the unsustainable state of affairs in transportation. Loads of people appear to actually believe they do and that’s sort of dangerous. We’re not gonna fix jack shit if we just transition these vehicles to being electric while further increasing car dependency and sprawl. We’re gonna make it even worse.

      • Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        17 hours ago

        Also, those tires on asphalt are one of the leading contributors to environmental pollution from all the shedded microplastics.

        • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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          12 hours ago

          I’m not going to claim that EVs are loud.

          I’m going to state it as a fact: EVs are loud. About as loud as ICE cars. I live on a busy street, so I know that this is beyond dispute. The tire noise and wind resistance dominate the noise produced above about 30 kph. ICE vehicles these days have efficient engines and good soundproofing. Many are virtually silent if they go past my house slowly.

          Unexpectedly, the hybrid-electric city buses that go past are among the quietest vehicles. They must use tires designed for a quiet, comfortable ride, because all I hear is a slight whoosh, even when they pass by in the quiet, wee hours of the morning.

          (To be fair, EVs with quiet tires and moving <30kph are virtually silent, too.)

        • dubyakay@lemmy.ca
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          16 hours ago

          They are loud. Not when they drive slowly, but when they pick up speed. The wheels make just as much noise as an ICE.

    • 9point6@lemmy.world
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      21 hours ago

      I’d say long term, neither of those should be problems

      The electricity it uses is not sustainable.

      Many EV users also go for solar panels to alleviate energy costs. Also as a country’s electrical grid modernises, it should make use of a greater share of renewables given they’re cheaper than the alternatives now.

      It has lots of tracking etc and in some cases remote control.

      Slightly less certain, but I’d hope this kind of thing is legislated away at some point. There’s also always customer choice, there will be manufacturers that compete on the privacy angle if enough of us care

      The main problem with EVs is it doesn’t solve any of the problems inherent to cars being treated as the main mode of transportation in a given area. Places like that will see EVs as the solution compared to an alternative of investing into better public transit infrastructure.

      Infrastructure that is basically inevitable, since we know now that any town/city that eschews anything but car transit will ultimately bankrupt themselves on road maintenance alone.

    • lurch (he/him)@sh.itjust.works
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      1 day ago

      the wear of the tires constantly pollutes the environment with synthetic material dust (rubber, plastic, etc). much more so, than from buses, because every car has to move more of its weight around per passenger.

    • msage@programming.dev
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      21 hours ago

      I would suggest different downsizes:

      • EVs are much heavies, and they wear down the road, and everything else
      • tire particles are going to be the next problem after fossil fuels

      Solution: trains, more trains, even more trains.