nyt op-ed going through 2 rounds of editors making sure he doesn’t say anything too based is pretty funny. ben shapiro is so bad at his own job at this point that even bill maher can easily own him with facts and logic. genuinely a pathetic showing from him.
Like holy shit imagine getting dunked on by Bill Maher.
Just listened to a bit of Hasan live earlier and I think he’s still suffering from sort of shell-shock from the “Russia actually invaded! The left was all wrong!” stuff. He seems to be clearly heavily hedging his bets against common sense and available evidence (that the shooter was groyped up) “just in case” so he doesn’t have to suffer another 100 moronic videos from libs who don’t actually care.
I think that’s poor analysis though it’s hard to say “You can’t reach a conclusion different from me!” It’s just a weird one for him to reach with currently available information. You can change as more info comes. I don’t know why he cares what people say; they’ll say it anyway.
Beyond his opinion, I think it’s uh a “politically bad idea” (failing at words) to even lightly lean into right wing framing. Even if the dude wrote a manifesto and included like receipts for him reading Marx for six months straight after he met his roommate/alleged lover I would still say you gotta just do the OP thing… lie. Just lie.
The Nazis are gonna lie their asses off. Fuck 'em. Lie better. Ultimately blasting Kirk doesn’t fit into leftist ideology. Not in any meaningful sense. It doesn’t advance any movements. You don’t need to be like “We love this guy!” Just blame that Nazi trash ass Fuentes and never stop. He’s gonna do the same thing to Hasan and others regardless if a manifesto comes out with him being like “I loved Nick Fuentes!”
The times of truth mattering are not these times. I believe a large, red-faced man used to describe all of this as information warfare… infowars… hmm. Maybe he was onto something. You just gotta counter stir the bullshit slurry. Like wtf else do you do? Just bend the knee and be like “Uh, I dunno, maybe he was a radical lib who loved Biden.” Who the fuck does that help? Lol. It’s just frustrating and weird. I don’t like it.
I was also sick of hearing about ‘Tiny Face, Big Gums’ within an hour of the shooting. I already hate the shooter if for no other reason than making media focus on one of the weirdest looking and objectively untalented assholes in “politics” for the last multiple decades. Which is almost impressive when you see his peers.
The thing is the left disdains to be dishonest. For us words mean things. For us truth means things. For us facts mean things. We intend to improve our lives through objectively better systems and decisions. The fascists and reactionaries can afford to lie because their actual goals are abhorrent so must be cloaked in excuses and other language.
The fact is also the reactionaries can lie because their followers enjoy it, because they are in power because capital is in power, because they’re not held to account and because they don’t value facts. Giving up one of our most notable differences between them and ourselves in that we are honest, they are dishonest, we care about facts and evidence, they don’t seems foolish.
Is there some value in strategic deceptions? Yes. But not bald-faced lying against the entire bourgeois media machine with things that leave you easily dunked on. At that point you begin retreating into pride and start spiraling into accepting more and more lies to save face, to not challenge your beliefs rigorously, and to sink into a hole of conspiracy and wild supposition that drives people away from you.
If you fight a war based on lies the right will win. They are more experienced. They have a century of lies to draw on, they have the high ground of owning all the platforms, the media, of bourgeois academics being sympathetic to them and steeped in liberal orthodoxy.
And the thing is we’ll never have a media machine capable of shouting down the right. Shouting and screaming that he was a fascist if he was indeed a communist won’t convince Trump, won’t convince the Trump justice department, won’t convince judges, won’t convince cable anchors, won’t reach your average person. It’s self-deception whereas the right’s deception at least is broadcast and amplified and built on a series of foundations where it actually deceives others, it muddies the waters enough to frustrate their enemies in liberals because they’re liberals.
This is exactly right. Also we don’t even need to deceive, framing in a way that favors us is entirely sufficient.
Lying isn’t acceptable. We should instead simply frame the truth in the optimal way. In this we employ rhetoric and should even embrace a sophistic flexibility with our own beliefs when trying to persuade. But fabricating facts simply torches your credibility and should be avoided. That’s what chat GPT does.
Not sure if I fully agree but you make a good point
Can’t we just say at this point “maybe he was a grouper, he might have just been a nobody politically, but we will get more evidence soon and it doesn’t matter anyway”
Obviously the trans roommate storyline doesn’t hold up at all. The only thing we have solidly on his “political opinions” is hearsay from an uncle or something
But there are also a lot more important things going on around this issue, the admin will use it for further repression regardless
I would really appreciate links about Tyler’s groyper affiliation.
The Vanity Fair had a write up on it. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/charlie-kirk-tyler-robinson-memes-meaning
I’m begging people to please remove the tracking elements when you paste links. all you need is https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/charlie-kirk-tyler-robinson-memes-meaning
the rest of that shit
?srsltid=AfmBOoqHZPZa-2h6dVqYfHM-jADCdmmcwU60H8-aoyXsnQfKyBQ3QNVR
is on there to track us. pls pls don’t include it.LONDON, UNITED KONGDOM - SEPTEMBER 12:
Donkey Kong has taken over the UK
I agree though it does actually seem that the shooter wasn’t a groyper like I previously predicted from the current evidence
I do however agree that you should lie and keep lying because no one cares or has cared about the truth in the US political environment for what is over 10 years now
This is like that time little Benny called some br*tish chud anchor left wing for pushing back against his bullshit at all.
Not just any chud anchor, but Andrew Neil. A man who runs infamous right wing magazine The Spectator, which pretty much sets the news agenda for the other papers and whose yearly garden party is as close to a public British media/politics ‘Illuminati’ meeting as there is. He’s personal friends with Trump, owns an apartment in Trump tower. His magazine has published some of the most unhinged rightwing things written beyond the mid-forties, including a passionate defenses of both the lufwaffee and SS in the 2000s.
Ben is a fucking moron.
just noticed he’s streaming with his AR in frame today
Gotta let’m know.
Kill the cop in your head & all that, but first thing I notice is his & the Dark Cowboy’s (5 years ago when making a video to Pelosi) lil armalites look 2 or 3 parts too scary for CA libs.
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he’s ok as long as you understand he’s a twitch streamer and not like a theorist or organizer or anything. But he’s raised money for good causes so that’s always cool and commendable beyond whatever theory disputes I might have with him.
that’s my main problem with him, he’s at his worst when he’s leaning into the twitch culture stuff. Maybe I’m just super old but I can’t follow it at all. I hate the dynamic of people looking at news articles, saying “bruh” and “chat look at this” while a TTS voice reads off donations and a chat goes by at a million words per minute. It’s pure gibberish slop to me.
The edited videos Hasan has put out have been way more compelling to me, way more focused and informative. Those are pretty good. The twitch streamer stuff though I can’t handle
Hes just like a super watered down leftist for the most part, I dont think most hexbears will get anything valuable out of watching him. But I can’t lie, the second I heard kirk got murked I fired up his stream cus I figured it would be the spot for minimum effort info gather bout tf was going on
he’s better than literally anyone on western TV/radio news. he’s good for people who think bernie is as left as it gets but he could be better, and his audience should outgrow him like a lot of us outgrew bush-era jon stewart.
Yep the reason to watch is so you can say “yeah I don’t agree with all his stuff, but most of what Hasan Poker says isnt far off from what I would say on most topics”. It moves normie progressive-liberals to democratic socialists.
When you talk to your friend next time and they use the “socialism” word, you get to openly reference socialist theory to pull them leftwards as needed.
Politically, he’s on the berniecrat/DSA end of leftism. However, in a space that’s mostly dominated by crypto-fash like Asmongold, he’s the one big leftist voice on Twitch and thus worthy of at least critical support.
He’s fine. Not as left as any of us would like but he does decent current events stuff.
I think he’s good. I also enjoy Fear& and really get a laugh out of their chemistry. I think I’ve out grown Hasan’s analysis at times, but sometimes I enjoy filtering the news through him just to keep my sanity.
he’s a flawed figure that works towards the greater good, like Stalin
He’s good to a point an overall positive but he does have some questionable aspects about him. He’s definitley not a liberal. But he’s also a twitch commentator. He has a questeionable relationship with consumerism as well. he bought an expensive 140k$ sports car which sets a bad example for his audience imo. He’s not quite radical enough for my tastes. He woudln’t be a remotely big twitch streamer if he was though.
He’s p good for media criticism, and when you want takes on live shit hard to beat.
Full show? Probably not worth it. Clips? Usually decent 10~30 minute watches.
Shapiro clip starts a bit after 7:15 in
Shapiro getting demolished by Maher? rather they both get demolished
