My point is that bringing up the whiteness of Jews in general is already problematic. Whiteness in itself is already a problematic and nebulous concept used as a means of determining in- and out-groups and using it to describe the group who has probably the longest history of being considered both white and non-white is treading ground that’s favoured by racists. It’s like bringing IQ into the conversation. Can we just not do that?
I feel like a lot of people missed your point- not just about Jews but the concept of “white” in general has been nebulous throughout history.
Irish people, Italian, greek… Pretty much all Mediterranean people. There’s been tons of conversations about whether Egyptians should be considered white, and which ones. The Nazi’s labelled the Japanese as “honorary Aryans”.
“White” is not based in anything physical or real. It’s a concept made up to exclude others and has changed based on who they want to include or exclude.
Exactly. I’m a member of a group that has often been considered nonwhite. Many on the left, on Lemmy or elsewhere, are unaware of how racist they are actually being. Some of course are actually racist, but I dare hope it’s only a few.
You seems to say, that jew, being massively from north Africa shouldnt be labeled as white. Which is totally fair.
Except jew isnt a color, there are black jew, and white jew. Black christian, and white one. Black muslim and white one.
Plus , you try to Straw man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) this meme. It never assumed any religion of the 3 white men portrayed. Probably, none of them believe in anything but whatever further their agenda.
‘White’ is a social category, not a scientific one. Who is white depends on who the majority of white people want to be white. In many ways the initial exclusion and then later inclusion of Irish and Italian immigrants in the US hinged on them becoming part of the system that oppressed indigenous and black Americans.
In that sense it makes complete sense that an Ashkenazi (European) Jewish man, whose parents were colonizers from Europe who moved to Israel, who is exacting a genocide on a group of people that are decidedly not considered white, might be considered white by other white people. There is certainly a history (past and present) of excluding all Jewish people from the category of whiteness, but blinding ourselves to the racism of the present, along with who is benefitting and who is suffering, is unwise.
This seems like it’s other way around, he is being considered white to target whites. Just goes to show how subjective that categorization is.
We need Family Guy colour sheets. I know that can cause people to become people of colour during summer if they have a tan but that’s the price we pay for the objective system.
Jews are white now? It seems they’re labelled however is most convenient for criticism.
Netanyahu is of Polish descent.
And formerly a US citizen to boot.
Not sure that has any bearing on the topic tbh
Ashnekazi Jews not being considered white is a very, very old antisemitic canard dating at least into the high middle ages. OP and everybody else here should be well aware of this. This article explains it far better than could: https://www.versobooks.com/en-ca/blogs/news/the-whitening-of-european-jews-and-the-misuse-of-holocaust-memory
Isn’t your point that we shouldn’t consider him white but now you’re saying that would be antisemitic?
My point is that bringing up the whiteness of Jews in general is already problematic. Whiteness in itself is already a problematic and nebulous concept used as a means of determining in- and out-groups and using it to describe the group who has probably the longest history of being considered both white and non-white is treading ground that’s favoured by racists. It’s like bringing IQ into the conversation. Can we just not do that?
I feel like a lot of people missed your point- not just about Jews but the concept of “white” in general has been nebulous throughout history.
Irish people, Italian, greek… Pretty much all Mediterranean people. There’s been tons of conversations about whether Egyptians should be considered white, and which ones. The Nazi’s labelled the Japanese as “honorary Aryans”.
“White” is not based in anything physical or real. It’s a concept made up to exclude others and has changed based on who they want to include or exclude.
Exactly. I’m a member of a group that has often been considered nonwhite. Many on the left, on Lemmy or elsewhere, are unaware of how racist they are actually being. Some of course are actually racist, but I dare hope it’s only a few.
You seems to say, that jew, being massively from north Africa shouldnt be labeled as white. Which is totally fair. Except jew isnt a color, there are black jew, and white jew. Black christian, and white one. Black muslim and white one.
Plus , you try to Straw man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) this meme. It never assumed any religion of the 3 white men portrayed. Probably, none of them believe in anything but whatever further their agenda.
‘White’ is a social category, not a scientific one. Who is white depends on who the majority of white people want to be white. In many ways the initial exclusion and then later inclusion of Irish and Italian immigrants in the US hinged on them becoming part of the system that oppressed indigenous and black Americans.
In that sense it makes complete sense that an Ashkenazi (European) Jewish man, whose parents were colonizers from Europe who moved to Israel, who is exacting a genocide on a group of people that are decidedly not considered white, might be considered white by other white people. There is certainly a history (past and present) of excluding all Jewish people from the category of whiteness, but blinding ourselves to the racism of the present, along with who is benefitting and who is suffering, is unwise.
White is anything racists want to persecute at the time. If they have a use for you, sure, you can be white…for now.
This seems like it’s other way around, he is being considered white to target whites. Just goes to show how subjective that categorization is.
We need Family Guy colour sheets. I know that can cause people to become people of colour during summer if they have a tan but that’s the price we pay for the objective system.
Natanyahoo is definitely white…
I don’t know about non white jews tho, I bet there are at least some 🤔
Who told that all jews are white?