I know you all who have been here longer than 3 days are probably sick of the whole “leaving reddit” post trend here, but I figured this would be a good thing to talk about because I didn’t really see it mentioned too much. A lot of people have spoken on here about poor moderation, the whole API debacle, a sort of downward cycle in terms of content quality etc. Plus, when I did bring these things up on my now-deleted reddit account, people mostly resorted to the whole “You hate capitalism yet you exist in it” argument. I also wrote a sort of summary for this in my application, so whoever read my application doesn’t really need to read this. I basically said the same shit just shorter.

But for me it was just because people got kinda mean? What I mean is that over the past 4 years (probably accentuated by the pandemic), it felt less and less like a place where you could just talk to somebody. With every post I made, it felt like I was in a competition not just in terms of karma but in terms of making something that pleased as many people as possible. Every title needed to be perfect for the grammar people, every fact needed to be perfect for the fact people, everything needed to be as apolitical as possible.

And even with all of these unwritten rules, I came to realize that there really are just two types of posts or comments on reddit. There’s jokes, and then there’s debates. Jokes ended up being a little more lenient in terms of unwritten rules so I think that’s why there’s so fucking many of them on reddit and it’s almost unavoidable to escape the pit of sarcasm in reddit comment sections. But with debates, it felt like with every comment I made, people came in expecting me to either agree with them or refute a point they made. And if I didn’t make “a point,” I wasn’t contributing. I couldn’t just go “Yeah I like Metal Gear Solid V, too,” I had to go “Yeah I like Metal Gear Solid V, too, and the guy you’re responding to is a fucking moron for not doing so,” or “No, you’re a dumbass, MGS4 is way better.” I remember one time I joined into a conversation and somebody actually replied bullying me for not “contributing” and for posting useless comments, as if I were somehow wasting their time by not trying to argue with them.

And what’s even worse is people just don’t seem to know how to be nice about it? Obviously with the internet, people are going to bully you at some point but on reddit it was just all. the. time. Every post I made, every comment I made there was somebody who didn’t like it and felt the need to tell me about it by insulting me or my family or my cat. Everyone was mean. It felt truly impossible to disagree with a person on reddit without insulting them, because that was the culture that was accepted there.

While I don’t use TikTok, I ended up stumbling upon this series of them by way of YouTube Shorts called “Average Redditor…” by The Slappable Jerk and I really think they perfectly encapsulate what it’s like to browse reddit, and I hate that it took me so long to realize that’s what my experience was like. I kept watching them and going “Nah, nobody’s like that,” but then the more I used reddit the more I realized “Yeah, it’s kind of everybody including myself.” As you can see in the video I linked, the guy is either joking or debating and he’s not nice about either one, and frankly that’s kind of how every single one of my reddit experiences has been so far. I can’t really remember the last time anybody has been nice to me on reddit. Maybe that’s my fault and my brain is suppressing me from realizing it, but I do think it’s a problem inherent in the system if I’m seeing other people doing it to each other also.

I got banned from reddit as a whole a week ago for reporting a guy for calling me a “spastic loser” after getting angry when another guy got angry for me not reading some deeper meanings in his 1 sentence post. I think that whole really weird run-on sentence should tell you all you need to know about my reddit experience these past few years. Funnily enough despite it breaking the subreddit’s rules against insults, it was “report abuse.”

I ended up hearing about Lemmy while browsing today and I deleted my account just now. I saw probably a couple dozen posts at most. It seems kinda slow here. But you know what I didn’t see at all? People fighting. Calling each other names. Insulting each other. I saw debates and arguments but I straight up didn’t see the same kind of debates and arguments that I saw on reddit. On Reddit I could probably go 3 or 4 posts without that happening, but even posts of 12 comments will always have rude jerks on them. Now I’m still new here, and I have heard that there are toxic and xenophobic instances of Lemmy that are on massive blocklists, but Beehaw so far has been nothing short of just plain joyful. It’s so wonderful to see people online just. talking. to each other. And while I see people swearing (I did it myself in this post), it really just haven’t seen it directed at other users on here. On reddit it seems like there’s such a big culture of if you’re gonna insult somebody you go for the deepest-cut insult possible. On here I just haven’t seen that.

TL;DR: People on reddit are mean. Beehaw (and some other instances of Lemmy I signed up for) are far from that.

/rant

  • Plus_a_Grain_of_Salt@beehaw.org
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    3 年前

    I just wanted to bring up something I hated about reddit that no one mentioned, just to get it out of my system; ask a reasonable question? Prepare to be mass downvoted. Like why? Who is downvoting this? How did that offend you? I’d understand if they were framed weirdly or completely unrelated to the issue, but a reasonable on topic question shouldn’t get that treatment.

    • flatbield@beehaw.org
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      3 年前

      I love the tendency to get down voted for actually giving a correct answer. I sometimes replied to people who got down voted about this both sad and amusing situation. Especially if I liked their answer.

      • Ben@lemmy.world
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        3 年前

        This is very true.

        Sometimes we learn bad habits, and when someone points out that the way most folks do it is actually wrong - they get voted down by most folks who want to justify that, because they’re doing it wrong, then the suggestion is offensive.

  • frogman [he/him]@beehaw.org
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    3 年前

    i didn’t notice the lack of swearing until you mentioned it, that’s so bizarre lol. i didnt even think about it but it’s pretty cool :p

    • setsneedtofeed@beehaw.org
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      3 年前

      Constant swearing is like a replacement for cleverness. It wears thin very quickly.

      When I see comments saturated with swears all I can think of are tweenagers who just realized they are out of earshot of their parents. I’m not offended by the swearing, just bored.

      • BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world
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        3 年前

        Constant swearing is like a replacement for cleverness.

        :( Me, who swears like a sailor.

        I do like to think that is swear at things and not people.

    • GenericUsername@feddit.de
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      3 年前

      WoW iT mUsT tAkE QuiTe a BiT Of EneRGy To Be ThAT SaRcASTic AlL tHe tIme.

      Pardon, couldn’t resist the urge Ü

      It actually does in my experience and you don’t even have to actively be the one with that attitude.

      I know (knew) someone like that and it honestly is exhausting. Even worse it also sucks the energy of anyone around and spreads like a dissease until either the whole community’s sick or the host isolated.

  • April@fedia.io
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    3 年前

    My experience on reddit is very similar to yours. The more niche subreddits you could get away from it a bit but… yeah. the video you shared captures it perfectly.

    As for beehaw, I’m not on there so idk. I joined kbin/fedia but my experience on the fediverse sounds similar to your own. Lots of people just chatting and talking about how it feels like “the old internet” and not really any of that reddit snark/heated debate.

  • Two9A@lemmy.world
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    3 年前

    …people came in expecting me to either agree with them or refute a point they made. And if I didn’t make “a point,” I wasn’t contributing.

    Exactly this; towards the end, I was writing a comment every couple of weeks on Reddit, and most of the reason why is that I felt I didn’t have “enough” of a contribution to make.

    • bermuda@beehaw.orgOP
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      3 年前

      agreed, the amount of awards available was kind of baffling and also a little strange considering most of them did basically nothing. The only “useful” awards were gold and platinum because they gave the other person premium. The others were pretty much a total waste of money.

      And the avatars, bios, banners, etc. made it seem like it was gravitating a lot more towards facebook. I know most of the lemmy instances too, but at least it doesn’t auto generate one for people who opt out.

  • Silviecat44@vlemmy.net
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    3 年前

    I was constantly dragged into multi comment long debates on reddit where people would insult and attack me and my opinions. Like you said, Lemmy is much nicer.

    • Kuma@lemmy.world
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      3 年前

      It is comments like these that makes me miss reaction buttons! I want you to know I laughed out irl when I saw your comment! And I can’t show that with out commenting. But writing only “hahaha” or 😂 feels a bit weird haha. But now you know 😂

  • Sinister_Crayon@beehaw.org
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    3 年前

    There is another aspect that you didn’t get into; I am on a lot of subreddits where I attempt to help people with questions. r/zfs, r/ceph, r/homelab and r/datahoarder are ones I frequent among others where if people have questions I and others attempt to help them. This is neither a debate nor humour, and is one area where Lemmy still has a lot of catching up to do… not least of which because the specialized communities don’t yet exist.

    I haven’t left Reddit yet… I’m still watching and waiting but it IS nice to have Lemmy and Tildes as alternatives (though I’m more digging Lemmy so far).

    • overlordror@beehaw.org
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      3 年前

      I think those communities will eventually arrive on the fediverse. If anything, building the community yourself and gently guiding people to the alternative could help fence sitters who don’t understand the full implications of reddit’s new policies for the 1% of power users who actually create most of the content.

      90% are lurkers, 9% will comment and upvote, while 1% of users generate content for the others.

    • Ben@lemmy.world
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      3 年前

      We must go out into the Fediverse, and discover - or create - our alternatives.

      Watching and waiting are one thing, but anyone with the expertise on Reddit should consider starting up basically a Fediverse Mirror.

      So right now, with r/zfs being down, would be the perfect time for a similar instance to be fired up in the Fediverse.

  • frostycakes@beehaw.org
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    3 年前

    Another “I know this isn’t the point of your post” comment, but that specific “Average Redditor” video rubbed me very much the wrong way.

    I was partially raised by a physically and emotionally abusive grandmother, and that level of sarcasm the Redditor character shows is honestly far better than what that woman deserved. I hate how any backtalk to a grandparent is just framed as flagrant disrespect and ungratefulness, without any sort of contextualization. Calling Grandma a simple woman is fair play for Grandma calling you a worthless criminal waste of space, threatening you with knives, and breaking multiple kitchen utensils over your head at the age of six. Money can’t buy off past abuse, and lord knows my grandma tried that shit too once I was too old for her to physically abuse.

    Sure, Redditors are mean, but that example is extremely mean to survivors of familial abuse as well. The YT comments are even more of a triggering hellscape, it’s sad because it’s turned me off of checking out the rest of the series, which by raw description I probably would’ve enjoyed.

    On a more topical note, I’m grateful for the welcoming nature of this community, and I’m hoping that keeps going as it keeps growing.

    • bermuda@beehaw.orgOP
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      3 年前

      I honestly just picked whatever his newest video was. Didn’t realize it was mean to the abused. Sorry.

      • frostycakes@beehaw.org
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        3 年前

        You’re fine, I don’t want to come off as if I think it’s your fault or anything. Hell, it’s not even the creator’s fault either, it’s a dynamic that’s common in media and real interpersonal relationships alike.

        It’s just kind of amusing that it illustrates both the hurt people hurting people thing and how from the outside, it’s easy to write aggression off as unjustified entitlement when context is missing.

    • Plus_a_Grain_of_Salt@beehaw.org
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      3 年前

      Man, your comment almost made me cry at work. Thank you for sharing, I never realized the connection between toxic communities and verbal abuse. You’ve made me realize I’ve been letting my own bad history influence my perspective. I’ve been hard on myself for having the same feelings as Bermuda towards reddit. I couldn’t tell if the community really is as bitter and short fused as it felt, or if I was being too sensitive. I thought feeling bad about what strangers said on the internet was weak of me. I realize now I’m probably just being hard on myself. People can be major assholes, and it doesn’t make you weak to notice their bad behavior.

    • azura@fedia.io
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      3 年前

      Oh gods please not the comment section of hacker news… I am still recovering

    • pimeys@lemmy.nauk.io
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      3 年前

      One of the things that make me really sad is the demise of Hacker News and how I can’t really go to the comments section in there anymore. I find lobste.rs to be a good replacement, especially when you need somebody to recommend you first to get an account there. It’s sharply focused on tech, preferably Linux and Unix, and programming. No startup economy bs, no product launches, just tech.

    • bermuda@beehaw.orgOP
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      3 年前

      No, I’m not really a hacking person. You could call me more of a PC “hobbyist.” Never got into the nitty gritty stuff like hacking or programming.

        • bermuda@beehaw.orgOP
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          3 年前

          I wouldn’t doubt it. A lot of my “hacker” buddies go pretty hard in the online discussions. They don’t really hold back.

  • towerful@beehaw.org
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    3 年前

    I find myself less guarded on beehaw in some ways, and more guarded in others.

    Firstly, I feel I can be more authentic. Discussions always seem to be in good faith, and I often come away learning something, reconsidering something, or just being more aware of other viewpoints. Whether I participate in the discussion or just read it.
    It’s just more enjoyable overall.

    Which leads me onto how I am being more guarded. I am really trying to consider other viewpoints before even engaging with posts or discussions.
    And I dislike that this is an effort for me.
    But I like that I have realised it, and I now get to make an effort to be better.

    • bermuda@beehaw.orgOP
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      3 年前

      I think with the lower userbase, it’s much less easier to say something others would find abhorrent or rude and then sulk away into the shadows of millions of other users. People can see you and go “that’s that person who said some fucked shit.” So for me at least I’ve found myself being a bit more guarded, but I think that’s a good thing.

      • Mothra@mander.xyz
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        3 年前

        Good point. But perhaps I’m wrong- I think most people don’t pay much attention to usernames here (or on Reddit for that matter). Lemmy makes it easier to change the display username iirc? So even if such was the case, I could quickly change mine. It would end up just like reddit, in which unless you bother checking a user’s profile you probably won’t know who they are or what they’ve said last month.

        • bermuda@beehaw.orgOP
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          3 年前

          I guess that makes sense. Still, the smaller community still has me watching my words.

  • mcpheeandme@lemmy.world
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    3 年前

    This is such an insightful and thoughtful post. It sums up exactly how I feel. I’m so over the negativity that I encountered daily on Reddit. Lemmy is a fresh start.

    A few years ago, while searching for answers about how to live a better life, this simple and kinda sappy thought came to me. Maybe it seems obvious or sentimental, but I use it to guide my actions every day: Shape the world with love.

    That’s how I’m trying to contribute to Lemmy. And it seems like most other users are, too.