I often acquire quite old hardware either cheap 2nd-hand or rescue stuff dumped on curbs typically w/out drivers or s/w. Ultimately all h/w will eventually be used on linux. But linux is often not ideal for testing to quickly assess whether something functions well – obviously because very little hardware is designed for linux.
So before investing time researching linux drivers and hacks for whatever obscure thing I am dealing with, I need to quickly test whether the thing works without searching forums for what complex installation procedure worked in Bob’s basement lab.
Apparently Windows is very dicey with both forwards and backwards compatibility. I thought win7 would be good for testing because it’s historically close enough to XP that things designed for XP might run on it, yet just barely new enough that hardware ~2—10+ yrs old might likely run on it.
But it seems to be more of a shit show than I expected. Some drivers demand a specific version of Winblows. Matching OS version is often not good enough either because they demand a particular service pack, or specific DirectX or “.Net” version (what a shitty name, btw), which cannot be too old OR too new (e.g. old TomToms are extremely fussy about .Net version IIRC). So even though some form of Windows has the best official support for any given piece of hardware which underwent the most rigorous of its testing on Windows, using Windows for testing hardware is a shitshow nonetheless. Plus I make it worse because I insist on Windows boxes being airgapped, which limits me to drivers I can get off the web and usb-side-load.
A virtualbox with a few different Windows VMs is not good either because virtualisation brings its own baggage of issues that blow the idea of quickly testing arbitrary hardware to confirm that it works.
Is hackintosh a better solution?
I will not be buying any recent Apple hardware. Fuck that… the cost defeats the purpose. I can (reluctantly) get really old Apple machines cheaply, but I suspect those tend to be incapable of any somewhat reasonably recent MacOS version. So I am tempted to try the hackintosh route on an old PC. Is it safe to say that MacOS drivers are more flexible across various MacOS versions than windows?
It has been decades since I tinkered with hackintoshes… is it still practical these days? I get the impression that it might still be good for my purposes (but perhaps not in ~5+ years from now considering this).
From your description it sounds like you want main components of your desired solution:
Ultimate compatibly for the best testing outcomes + ease of test scenario setup
For both of those the obvious answer to me is “install the version of the OS that generation of hardware was built for”. So no Linux or OSX for testing, just install whatever version of Windows which shipped with the PC.
I understand not wanting old/unpatched Windows OS sharing the network with your other systems, but why not set up a NAT with a DMZ that would allow the Windows machines you’re testing to reach out to the internet to download whatever drivers it needs without those Windows machines being able to access your primary network?
Trying to do testing of old PC hardware with OSX sounds like a pretty difficult solution with lots of problems ahead.
I am not enthusiastic about buying 3+ different retail versions of Windows in order to put them safely online without worrying about whatever anti-piracy signals they send, along with whatever else those dodgy black boxes spew. It’s not inbound attacks that would concern me b/c they are mostly powered off test boxes anyway. I could setup egress firewalls that block everything outbound (as I do for printers), but then I would need to mitm my own machine and detect where the drivers and legit tools try to connect so I could put holes in the f/w.
Why are you buying copies of Windows? If you’re dealing with old windows boxes anyway, the OEM license is still on it. Further, you can just install the Trial versions of windows for the short time you need to do your hardware eval. No purchase needed.
This is on hardware that came out of the trash, on your isolated DMZ network. What possible information could it spew that could hurt you?
I’m not. Hence the problem.
I would be most tempted to do a multi-boot.
I did not buy any of the hardware. I rescue PCs from curbside dumps and have not bought a PC in over 20 years. The machines all have Windows stickers (mostly XP, win7, and vista). The s/n on all the stickers is rubbed off. All of them. Those stickers really do not hold up over time or abuse. Most of the dumped hardware has a drive w/Windows already installed, but that’s typically in a rough state… someone else’s data, someone else’s language (not English), and sometimes passworded. So if I am going to install Windows on it, it won’t be legit.
Let’s not confuse the PC with the peripherals. It all came from the trash, the PCs and also whatever it is that I am testing. Some of the salvaged PCs have popups saying that the Windows copy installed is illegit (just as it would be if I install a new copy of Windows). I do not trust whatever Windows would send over the wire generally, legit copy or not.
I don’t know much about the trial versions you mention, but I think that’s a new option since win10, no? Can I get a trial version of XP or win7, for example? I kinda doubt it. I suspect there are likely only blackmarket copies of those versions at this point.
I think you may be confusing “licenses” with “software keys”. Any big name retail computer would have been sold with an OEM license of Windows. That says with the hardware for its entire life. The not having the sticker on the outside doesn’t remove the license. On later machines the software key was written to the BIOS of the machine, so you wouldn’t even have to prompt to install it and activate Windows. For machines that don’t have that, install the trial version of Windows (of whatever era your machine is) you won’t be able to activate it, but you don’t need to for the couple of hours you’ll be doing your hardware testing.
Why would you even bother to read the contents of the disk? Simply wipe the disk when you do your Windows install. All their data, passwords, everything disappear, and your clean version of the OS goes onto the machine for your hardware testing.
Microsoft had a vast first party download archive for all versions of windows back to Windows NT 4.0 for download. I just checked the links I knew of and MS has decided to take down the public versions of this and hide it behind an MSDN subscription for the same thing.
So, yes, your best bet would bet to download those older images off a more questionable site, but again, whats the risk in doing that?
As long as you treat the whole trash machines as suspect (and only on your DMZ) you’re fine. If you’re testing peripherals simply designate specific non-trash Windows machines as your “red zone” like its contaminated and do you testing on only those dedicated machines wiping the OS often.
Indeed it’s not a legal problem, but the software does not know that.
I did not know about that, but I don’t suppose anything I have would be recent enough to have that. And in any case, the machines are never dumped with their installation source CDs. The dodgy versions of Windows I have come across also do not prompt for a product key, but not because they found a legit key – they have just been hacked well enough to relieve the user from dealing w/key entry.
I’ll keep that in mind but I doubt MS still ships trial versions of s/w they no longer sell (xp or win7). I could put a dodgy version on, but then there is the problem that various tools complain about not having a recent enough service pack. A lot of Windows drivers and hardwre support tools are fussy about service packs, .net versions, directX, etc.