Context: X11Libre is a fork of X11 aiming at preserving the X Server (fair enough, right?). One of the creators got permanently banned from freedesktop.org for apparently violating the Code of Conduct (no info on that, they just blame Red Hat), see themselves as hunted by both Big Tech and “toxic elements” who “took over the X11 project” They want to “make X great again”.
The issue about their highly political README (which they wrote due to the original project “becoming too political”, lol) also contains the usual red flags like transphobia. https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/issues/40
Why did the discussion turned into distro advertisement?X11 was never great.
(Like seriously, it’s nothing but config files you have to edit from the local console shell and and proprietary stuff from nvidia that misbehaves, all the way down. Always has been.)
To be fair they made a lot of strides to the point where config file wrangling went from mandatory to almost never done.
But yes, Nvidia would have quirks driving people back to wrangling config file, but they got better too.
Though I’m not particularly interested in X11. The biggest thing they had was trivial application forwarding, but the architecture didn’t scale well to modern resolutions and UI design that was largely bitmaps being pushed, as well as not handling higher latency networks too well.
it’s nothing but config files you have to edit from the local console shell
Some people seem to love that, as well as the total lack of any kind of access control or security. I mean, look at how many people are still arguing that “Systemd is destroying Linux”, clinging to initd with all its bash scripts and no nice way to prevent race conditions and such.
To roughly quote someone from a talk (not sure where I heard that, was about systemd as well I think):
“We nerds are very good at change when we’re the ones proposing it, but very bad when it comes from the outside.”
Found more context, for who is now curious:
- Apparently threatening violence with guns is okay (just got marked as “off-topic”).
- The maintainer of X11Libre, Enrico Weigelt, is an anti-vaxer who already got scolded by Torvalds for writing bullshit on the kernel mailing list
The more I read into X11Libre, the more I’m laughing. Now the freedesktop ban also makes perfect sense.
YOOOOOO!!! IT’S THE SAME FUCKING GUY. I remember that legendary Torvalds roast. Good shit.
The maintainer of X11Libre, Enrico Weigelt, is an anti-vaxer who already got scolded by Torvalds for writing bullshit on the kernel mailing list
Oh, so it’s him. Dude got absolutely lucky Linus is on mild mode nowadays. On his prime the scold would’ve been of such epic proportions all the viruses he could have on his body would’ve leave him out of pure cringe.
Linus has good values, by he’s also a toxic asshole that surrounded himself with other toxic assholes. And that’s why both immoral people and nice people eventually get shown the door / leave the Linux project.
He used to be, but he has become surprisingly chill from what I’ve seen. Maybe it’s just coincidence, but I’m under the impression that “no compiler warnings” thing, as well as the introduction of C11 and Rust played a role in that. In all three instances he made an open minded decision, all of them after he realised he was wrong on numbers one and two
He absolutely admits when he’s wrong (as soon as he realizes anyway). I think it’s part of his “no bullshit” value extending to himself.
His outbursts were always with good reason. But you don’t need to belittle and scorn people to enforce values in a community. You don’t need to be an ass. He was, and attracted people like him, and now it’s darn near impossible to turn that culture around. At last not until a lot of the assholes like Ted retire.
He’s gotten a lot better
Eh… Too little, too late.
Honestly, I’m fully on board of this development. It might be useful for those distros that can’t move to Wayland and, more importantly, can keep the developers far from everything else.
Lol, how will they get any contributions if they explicitly say that trans girls are not welcome? You know who run the internet?
The project will either die through lack of interest or over-availability of cringe. There’s no way for it to succeed with this MAGA nonsense and threats plastered all over it, they’d have a hard time finding enough devs even without alienating everyone except Fox News viewers. Meanwhile they’ll feel confirmed in their worldview due to all the rightful criticism flooding in.
If the project survives this initial phase of antipathy we’ll probably get years of cringe from it.
Furries?
I don’t think they will get contributions. But they will not bother the rest for a bit
At least his aim is shit… lol (talking about this GermaA… dude)
Think we can get them to rename it to xy11? You know, because only having x is part of the feminist agenda.
XXY11 so they have to learn about intersex and other way sex characteristics can show up.
Oh is that the red hat they are blaming?
Of course Lunduke is a fan rolls eyes
What is that guys deal?
He used to be fun… Like 25 years ago
Idk but in his thumbnails he always looks like he has to take a shit
Probably rips a bong before taking a photo.
If only he did, maybe he would be a bit more chill
My take is that they grew up religious and take conservative things being correct as an axiom. Its why some parts of conservative movement’s are considered Christian, even if they or the followers are not that religious.
https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/issues/40#issuecomment-2963760417
Yeah, that’s not great, is it
Reading that made me want to unalive myself.
O.m.f.g.
What even…
Lmao, they even tried to say that they learned it from Dave Chapel (I think, it’s hard to understand) a few comments down like that makes it better. He literally used it in reference to jewish people, like come on.
If you want to know more about how unhinged the dude is, I recommend reading this email thread in the DNG mailing list.
I’ve been watching a lot of Miniminuteman lately. Weigelt sounds exactly like the crackpot conspiracy theorists whose “facts” are being “silenced” by “the Establishment” of “mainstream science” because “they don’t want you to know this”.
First time iv ever seen someone reference mini minuteman. Neat. The great raft was a good video!
Reminds me of the Hyprland dev and the shit that community is. https://drewdevault.com/2024/04/09/2024-04-09-FDO-conduct-enforcement.html
Yeah but hyprland, unlike x, is actually pleasant to use.
Not an excuse for poor behavior nonetheless, merely an observation.
Very typical projection (“I’m not political, you are”), but the reactions are unnecessary in my opinion (feeding the trolls as some would say). If you don’t like the attitude of the maintainer, fork it if you like, ignore it if you don’t.
There’s no feeding going on. We’re simply laughing at their expense.
I mean, it’s funny to laugh at nazis.
No wonder why freedesktop nuked their repository.
And Fedora apparently wants to add xlibre to their repository (hopefully not)X11 drama.
I miss the days when the OS community found -often painful- ways to deal with excentric or even toxic and erratic developers. That definitely had more class than conformist mobs celebrating each character assassination of somebody disagreeing. Not that I’d support any anti-vax bullshit or bigotry, I just dislike mobs of holier-than-thous. Because they aren’t holy or as “good” as they think they are. IMO they’re just the sort of people waiting for a reason to get their torches and pitchforks. I don’t think that’s any better, morally, or less intolerant than having unhinged opinions.
I miss the days when we tolerated assholes and bigots instead of calling them out.
You’re not calling out anyone here. That has happened elsewhere. You’re nothing but gossiping about it. You’re not the defenders of anything but spiteful, ugly people.
“No, go away.”
That’s a perfectly valid way to deal with toxic contributors. There’s always people with better social skills and equal developer skills out there, you don’t have to accept and include toxic people just because they wrote some code.
Just alienate them more and they will get better on their own… Right?
I think the guy you’re responding to is saying that communication and not alienation is how we bring these people out of whatever holes they’ve dug themselves into.
I know hes getting downvoted a ton, but if my take on what he wrote is correct then I also agree with him.
The reason the world is so divided right now is because nobody wants to talk through things with open minds and with empathy.
“Meet me in the middle” says the unjust man.
You take a step towards him, he takes a step back.
“Meet me in the middle” says the unjust man.You can’t engage such people in good faith, and it’s impossible to convince them to adopt a different viewpoint. People much smarter than you have tried and failed.
I don’t doubt it… but there has to be some way to pull people back from the hole they’ve dug themselves into. Straight up ignoring them seems counterproductive, but you’re right… I’m not an expert and im sure people have tried
It just feels sad and frustrating to me as well. This guy obviously seems to have some talent but got sucked into something that overshadows his talent with just plain idiocy on things he doesn’t know anything about it seems like…
Really sad times
Edit: just read the article you sent. This was particularly in the case of sending out messaging where people can’t have a discussion back with you.
Your last sentence is somewhat naive. It can often place the onus on the wrong group. People don’t want to engage with the XLibre dude with open minds and empathy any more because back when they did, he didn’t engage with an open mind or empathy. You can only do that for so long before you have to isolate and protect. Quarantine, deplatforming, and isolation works when someone refuses to engage. At some point you have to be intolerant of intolerance if you want to get anything done.
Scope some literature on deradicalization. There is only so much empathy you can give someone who thinks an entire group of people don’t deserve to be human and, more importantly, there has to be a cutoff when you’re not getting empathy back. You’re right, empathy and an attempt to understand is important. Don’t forget many people in marginalized or attacked groups have to defend their existence every single fucking day so sometimes their empathy is pretty drained.
I totally understand and I’m more ranting about this just in general… My in laws are super Trumpers and just going down the rabbit hole. I totally get that its exhausting to argue or try to push them to think about the shit they are saying, but its the only thing I can think of that MIGHT help
Does being intolerant of intolerance actually work though?
Note: I’m not being tolerant of their views, im challenging them constantly on them in a constructive way (at least to me). It doesn’t generally go over well, but it has helped seemingly to treat them with respect and to do active listening and challenge that by making them actually feel like you’ve heard them.
