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Yeah we beat them when they were them, but now they’re us.
They were us back then too, and we still beat them.
No. There’s a gigantic difference between nazis speaking freely and nazis running the country.
The USA supported the Nazis in the beginning and were reluctant to intervene. Then we did and took all the credit. It was to weaken Russia. Now the world is a global capitalist hellhole. Chynah is capitalist and Russia is capitalist. You are a subject. You are not free. Freedom is relative and bound by natural law. Unions need leverage. Thank gawd all men die.
It was for a variety of reasons that all aligned
when German u-boats sank the lusitania.. Wait that was WW1. I’ve gotta go read some wikipedia.
By killing them. You can’t defeat a nazi in debate, but you can hang them.
We never beat them.
The west ensured that Nazism survived, filling the ranks of West Germany’s security services with them and then institutionalising fascist terrorist groups all throughout Europe through it’s “Gladio” networks. Japan’s economy was essentially just handed back to the very same pack of colonialists and industrialists that had fuelled Japan’s imperialism in the 20s.
Hell, even the Romanian Communist Party got in on the act - those vicious Iron Guard bastards were just too good at torture and murder to pass up, I guess.
So no… we never beat them.
Maybe it’s too pedantic of me but I think we beat them. We failed to fix the corrupted system that spawned them. The inequity and the propaganda, The oligarchs pitting a us against each other. Marginalizing groups as scapegoats.
We (the US) let those little those freedom checks and balances we were touted in school be destroyed with barely a whimper
You’re wrong, they did not fail it was intentionally.
US/UK made sure plenty of fascists escaped after surrendering to them.
Kept them in power in all of Europe with a slap on the wrist at most.
How many nazis where trialed at the Nuremberg virtue signaling trials? 24.
NATO literally had fascist regimes in it, Spain, Portugal, Greece.
Even leading NATO/EU and various countries. .All of this has been swept under the carpet.
https://ebeggin.substack.com/p/ratlines-nato-and-the-fourth-reich
https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2024/01/12/nato-as-seen-from-one-who-grew-up-under-us-sponsored-neofascism-unherd/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_Gs-0dhOoScratch a fascist and a liberal bleeds - see, that’s how you can tell that we did not, in fact, defeat the fascists - if we did, liberalism would be dead and buried, too.
Instead, we allowed “liberal democracy” to nurse fascism back to health, hone it’s murderousness by using it as a tool of colonialist domination, and pretend to be shocked when these fascists just suddenly show up to protect their precious capitalist status quo back home in the imperial core.
None of that was an accident - when we say fascism is just colonialism coming home to roost we don’t mean it figuratively.
Eloquent, but also bull#$%. What would you do? Execute every last person in Germany and Japan to make sure you rooted out the fascists? None of the fasscists that were alive then are in charge of what’s going on now. The neofacisct groups have nothing to do with WWII other than they decided to celebrate them. This isn’t the problem of an organization allowed to thrive and grow, it’s an ideal that’s being picked up by people and used as a tool.
Oh, it’s “bull#$%,” eh?
No, Clyde, I’ll tell you what is actually bullshit - people like YOU literally WATCHING both liberals and fascists play their respective parts to protect the status quo right in front of your goddamn eyes and STILL pretending that any of this is some great mystery to you.
That’s bullshit.
Hold on, I’m trying to find my tiniest violin while I block you.
You’re up for three more years of your liberal overlords pretending to dislike fascists while they tell you to “vote harder” - you might want to save that violin for yourself.
You are doing a fantastic job of pitting one group against another, so apparently knowing the problem doesnt make you immune to it.
LOL, even the Naz!s knew the problem with that! “© that non-Germans shall be prohibited by law from participating financially in or influencing German newspapers, and that the penalty for contravening such a law shall be the suppression of any such newspaper, and the immediate deportation of the non-Germans involved. The publishing of papers which are not conducive to the national welfare must be forbidden.”
Of course, then they then go too far with: “We demand the legal prosecutions of all those tendencies in art and literature which corrupt our national life, and the suppression of cultural even which violate this demand.”
Can we reclaim the Pepe?
From the only licensed Pepe plush.
From Boy’s Club comics to appropriated alt right symbol (WT actual F tho), Pepe has often been misunderstood. That’s why we work with his creator Matt Furie to make the only officially licensed Pepe toy out there. Feels good man.
We partner with youth shelters and people who care to make sure all of our goodies do some good…ies.
It’s already been done. I’ve seen tons of regular ho-hum non-racist Pepes the past few years since Matt Furie killed off the character in the official comics.
I mean the vast vast majority of them have always been innocuous. The racist ones were always very rare pepes
They never had pepe on their side it was just a scam
Be the change you want to see in the world.
no
But the call is coming from inside the house this time.
Bingpot!
The call was always coming from inside the house - fascism is just colonialism coming home to roost, after all.
“Fascism is imperialism turned inwards.”
And then turned outwards again
Yeah, the two most prominent examples of fascism in history (Germany and Italy) were only beaten by a combined military power much, much greater than them. Even as they were literally being bombed into rubble and their military situation was beyond hopeless, they never overthrew their fascist leaders.
Maybe they’re only the most prominent b/c they weren’t stopped?
Remember the mid-2000’s Ukrainians Orange revolution? I wouldn’t be surprised you don’t b/c those fasciat losers were stopped from within, so we don’t talk about them too often. Which is good, honestly.
They won in 2014
Yep. And the most prominent fascist power that wasn’t overthrown externally (Francoist Spain) lasted 40 years until it’s demogogue died. The reason it wasn’t a bigger problem for the world at large was that it was a politically isolated minor power.
The world hasn’t yet seen something like an (openly) fascist modern USA.
Japan killed well over twenty million people.
I came here to write this exact statement I’m glad to see somebody else already did.
We had help with the rest of the world.
Germany didn’t get out of the third Reich by themselves (which is what is going on)
This sounds like the defeatist attitude they want you to have. Just give up, it’s hopeless. No one is helping you.
No, I don’t think I will. I think I’ll do something. We need more people feeling empowered to take back this country. Not thoughts of hopelessness.
Consider that Germany was in far more dire straits economically, and Hitler’s approval was crazy high even towards the end of the war (something like 60 or 70%). So the entire time the opposition was outnumbered.
In comparison, Trump’s approval is around 45%.
Look up the history. Hitler wasn’t elected by a majority but appointed by an elite and then killed the opposition. There was massive opposition before, including street battles. But that’s also why he got the dictatorial power. Apporoval means nothing if people obey executive orders.
Could you link some sources for that massive resistance? Wikipedia says there was very little organized resistence for most of his rise to power, and the regime was SO popular amongst the populace, it prevented even anti-nazi’s in the intelligence services from acting on their underground networks.
What we’re seeing with the current fairly widescale open resistence is far beyond anything that happened in Germany.
Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti. There is a free pdf file of it with some searching I know.
Found it. You read this and it’s gonna sound a lot like modern day.
Eh, generally not a fan of Parenti, as he gives far too much of a pass to authoritarian marxist-leninists regimes for my comfort.
Thanks for the going through the legwork to share the link, though.
From what I recall from Behind the Bastards, a major part of Hitler’s bloc was the upper middle-class. Shopkeepers, factory managers, so on. It basically came down to the opportunity to eliminate wealthy Jews, and taking their stuff - fancy furniture, buildings, their businesses, ect. The destruction of the Jews was a matter of greed that happened to fit hand-in-glove with racist ideology.
The scale of the opposition would be difficult to quantify - the whole reason liberals hand power to fascists in the first place is to violently suppress dissent against the status quo, after all.
Italy gives a clue, however - almost the entire north of Italy was liberated by antifascist Partisan movements (before the US and UK suppressed them, of course.) The same thing happened in Greece - and Greece had turned fascist even before Italy and Germany did.
So yeah… Hitler’s (supposed) “popularity” should be viewed with the same suspicion as Putin’s.
So yeah… Hitler’s (supposed) “popularity” should be viewed with the same suspicion as Putin’s.
Fair enough, though I could also see Hitlers public approval rating being real for a few reasons.
- Unlike Putin & Trump, Hitler seemed to give frequent economic concessions to industrial workers to prevent dissent.
- Their economy did improve (due to imperialist conquest and ransacking obv, which most of the population didn’t seem bothered about)
- His supporters seemed to suffer the same cognitive dissonance cult-like worship that MAGA currently suffers under (despite their economic conditions getting worse in the US), but perhaps on a much wider scale.
I’m not well read enough on Greek or Italian fascism to know if Mussolini or Metaxas were worse at quelling dissent or keeping the non-targeted groups ‘happy’, but from what I recall of Mussolini, his conquests were far less successful than Hitler’s, which may have limited his economic ability to keep people pacified in the same way.
Resistence is too late. There was opposition before the nazis gained power.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbanner_Schwarz-Rot-Gold
German site says 2.5 million members were organized mostly by SPD, with 250,000 in the elite units.
They are mentioned as opponents to the SA:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung
Its primary purposes were providing protection for Nazi rallies and assemblies, disrupting the meetings of opposing parties, fighting against the paramilitary units of the opposing parties, especially the Roter Frontkämpferbund of the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) and the Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold of the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD), and intimidating Romani, trade unionists, and especially Jews.
By the time Hitler assumed power in January 1933, SA membership had increased to approximately 2,000,000
Strangely there is no information about the conflicts. This is what I found, on the site of the communist units who also fought the nazis.
Since the strategy of the SA was to fight and provoke, violent encounters between the RFB and SA soon became a part of everyday life.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roter_Frontkämpferbund
What we’re seeing with the current fairly widescale open resistence is far beyond anything that happened in Germany.
If it is not clear, it’s the other way round.
I wasn’t aware of the scale of those opposition parties, the Reichsbanner in particular. I also can’t really find much info on their conflicts pre-1932, I assume they are only written about in German? Definitely an interesting topic to delve into.
Cheers for sharing the solid research :)
Once white people are getting vanned for lack of patriotic fevour I’m sure Trumps ratings will increase, too.
notably the soviets, but we don’t have any equivalent today thats willing to do that.
Germany didn’t want to, at least not a majority. Maybe if Germans would have known where it was going (unwinnable war vs all neighbours at once etc), they would have tried early. US Americans have the advantage of this knowledge.
Look where having the advantage of this knowledge got us.
Maybe knowledge is a bit intense for some.
Unfortunately, that knowledge doesn’t just help those who wish to fight against it. Those who seek that kind of authoritarian power also were able to learn what worked and what didn’t.
They then spent decades patiently cultivating the type of society, through extensive social manipulation that has since been exacerbated thanks to expanding technology, to create the perfect environment for them to try again.
This is all by design of those who hold the levers of industry to further facilitate their concentration of wealth.
LOL ‘help’
The Soviets killed 85% of the nazi troops.
The rest was all other countries combined.
And they would’ve been on the Atlantic in no time without trouble if the allies hadn’t come in to take a piece of the European loot.
The nazi’s enemy were the communists.
They didn’t fight as much against the west which gave them all the chances to surrender and escape punishment.
Guys you lost.
Bro leave Pepe out of this ;w;
Pepe did nothing wrong
Yeah I thought we had moved past this whole pepe is alt-right thing. He’s a beloved little goof.
The Nazis can take my little pepes out of my cold dead hands
And this time can we forgo the special treatments for “usefuls”?
Like, for example, the commander of unit 731, who is a mass murderer and mass torturer, but since he had some medical data (which turned out to be worthless anyway) he got a new identity and enjoyed a nice free life
So say “we” as if we are in charge.
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“There isn’t a genocide happening…”
Do you mean besides the one in Gaza, where U.S. money and munitions have been facilitating the bombing and starvation of children for over a year?
My question is rhetorical. If you have a response, I’m not interested in hearing it.
I meant in america, apologies.
Yes, no genocide on homeground (unless you could count the genocide of native americans as still on going), but there’s slavery (and it has a big enough market influence that it lowers wages significantly) and concentration camps.
lemmy is full of people that hate fascists. simple as.
Cool they also think everyone they disagree with is a fascist.
they think that everyone that fits the Definition of fascism, is a fascist
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But we do, in fact, have enough information to call Trump a fascist (and thus anyone who is a suporter of his). The defintion of fascism, as stated by wikipedia is:
- far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement.
- characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition
- belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race
- strong regimentation of society and the economy.
- Opposed to communism, democracy, liberalism, pluralism, and socialism
Trump has, in the not so distant past:
- Claimed expanded executive authority
- refused to transfer power after losing an election
- has praised authoriterian leaders
- Frequently made appeals to racial and cultural superiority (e.g., calling certain countries “shitholes,” claiming immigrants are “poisoning the blood” of ‘America’)
- Attempted to delegitimize dissent or protest as unpatriotic
- Just a couple of days ago called the national guard (not sure if that’s the correct translation) on anti-deportation protesters
- Has, and is, sending deported people into de-facto concentration camps
- Has suggested using the military for domestic policing
- Has endorsed populist economic nationalism (tariffs, breaking international trade norms, attacking corporations that oppose him)
And much more, but let’s just jump to a conclusion anyways, right? Nazwałbym Pana debilem, ale tak nie wypada, to tego nie zrobę.
Not sure what that last sentence is about but either way I simply disagree with your conclusion.
Fuck off, you piece of shit.
Shocking response.
Down with MAGA!
More left victory memes for the cause ❤️
That’s the spirit - we’ll win if we just post enough memes! C’mon, who’s with me? Let’s get scrollin!
Would we have beat the nazis if they just stayed in Germany?
Nope. The US, UK and France weren’t waging war on fascism in any way whatsoever - they were waging war on rival empires.
That’s the whole reason they never went to war with Francoist Spain - they helped him into power, after all.
Nope, they sat by and watched as Germany sunk into fascism and began their ethic cleansing and putting people in cattle cars to take to camps, if Germany had never invaded Poland they would’ve continued to sit by and do fuck all.
After Germany invaded Poland they have continued to sit by and do about fuck all for a year.
In Spain the fascist stayed in Spain, participation on ww2 was very small and Franco betrayed Hitler as soon as he saw he was going to lose, so there was no reason for the USA to invade Spain and we got 40 years of fascist dictatorship.
