• Atomic@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    132·
    16 hours ago

    Crazy that some seem to suggest you can’t care about whales heading towards extinction without being a level 6 Vegan.

  • kapulsa@feddit.orgEnglish
    379·
    1 day ago

    This is not an isolated issue. This is how we treat animals and other humans (regarding the harpooning, we only do it figuratively to other humans, not literally).

    Go vegan.

      • kapulsa@feddit.orgEnglish
        7·
        22 hours ago

        You’re right. Probably should be mostly figuratively to humans, but also literally. And we also do it figuratively to the whales by destroying and polluting the ocean ecosystems.

    • aeshna_cyanea@lemm.eeEnglish
      101·
      23 hours ago

      People’s morality about slaughtering meat is going to flip so hard once we get affordable lab grown meat, future generations will think of us as utter savages. But until then I don’t think it’s going to happen at scale

      • Ephera@lemmy.mlEnglish
        115·
        23 hours ago

        I doubt, it’s going to make any sudden jumps. We have various vegan meat alternatives already, which are good, and you still have plenty people that feel personally attacked by the existence of morals, because they base their personality on eating dead animals.

        • I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.worldEnglish
          91·
          20 hours ago

          Maybe that’s because most of the vegan meat alternatives don’t taste like what they’re trying to replace, have a weird texture, or cause horrible gas/stomach problems.

          We haven’t cracked a good meat substitute yet, at least not for people that enjoy the real thing. We’re close, but we’re just not there yet.

          • theolodis@feddit.orgEnglish
            4·
            15 hours ago

            So you’re saying for you to stop causing unnecessary suffering, solely for the pleasure of your taste buds, you’d need a perfect 1:1 replacement, because otherwise you’re valuing a good meal more than not being a monster to animals?

            Then let me ask, how many meat substitutes have you tasted so far? An estimate would do.

          • Ephera@lemmy.mlEnglish
            62·
            18 hours ago

            You’ve interpreted very different goal posts into my comment than I intended. My comment was deliberately unspecific, because I’m well aware that we all live in different situations. I can buy vegan meatballs in the shop, which taste like the real thing, but if I lived in a more rural region or in a different country, I might not be able to.

            But what’s essentially universal to the human experience is that there’s some decent vegan protein source, which folks could be eating more of, if they wanted to. So, I’m not talking about switching over wholesale here. I’m saying most people could be eating more nuts, peas, beans, lentils, hummus, tofu, vegan meatballs, whatever. You’re gonna find something.

            Lots of folks don’t even engage with that option, though. Either they’re too lazy to learn something new, or they’re psychopaths who don’t care about morals in the first place, or they’re caught up in identity politics of “I need to be strong, because I’m suffering from toxic masculinity, and to be strong, I need to be eating meat”. And particularly in the last case, they often associate meat and manliness with their food having bled out.

            As such, in terms of actual morality, lab-grown meat will

            • maybe catch a few of the lazy folks, because they really don’t have to exert even the slightest thought anymore, whether it’s equivalent to what they usually eat,
            • not get through to the psychopaths, because those never care about morals, and
            • have a hard time with the toxic masculinity crowd. Maybe some of them will be rational enough that it’s the same thing in the end, and so even though they’re irrational in their belief that they need it for manliness, they might still accept it. But especially if the lab-grown meat isn’t immediately perfect, I expect there to be persistent pushback, that it’s not the real deal and whatever. The meat industry will gladly spread propaganda to reinforce that.
          • Bytemeister@lemmy.worldEnglish
            5·
            19 hours ago

            I think it’s a real shame too. I’ve had some fantastic veggie/potato burger. You gotta drop all pretense of the patty being meat, and instead just focus on making it tasty.

      • falcunculus@jlai.luEnglish
        51·
        13 hours ago

        It’s not just whales, one could draw the same comic about other animals being hunted or factory farmed, it would be very traumatic to live through. In fact Disney made an animated one about deer.

      • kapulsa@feddit.orgEnglish
        42·
        13 hours ago

        I thought I provided that connection by mentioning the harm we’re doing to almost all animals.

  • ryedaft@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    36·
    1 day ago

    Whales are the farmers of the sea. They fertilize the open oceans and produce more food than they eat. Especially the biggest ones, like the fin whales Japan has decided to hunt again. So if you like sea food, maybe don’t kill the whales.

    • Nangijala@feddit.dkEnglish
      113·
      20 hours ago

      I get your point, but let’s not compare them to one of the biggest polluters in the world. Farmers fucking destroy our planet.

    • grysbokEnglish
      324·
      2 days ago

      I do give deer hunting a pass because they’re overpopulated in places (because humans wiped out their native predators).

      Feel free to try and change my mind so I can wipe that off my ever-shrinking personal “ethically ok to eat meats” list. For all I know this is one of those lies I was raised with that I’ve not examined since childhood. Edit: context is in Kentucky, USA 20 years ago. I don’t know about deer populations elsewhere and elsewhen.

      • IngeniousRocks (They/She) @lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        535·
        19 hours ago

        Former vegan, current pescatarian here.

        Dont stop hunting, please. Humans did a phenomenal job of ensuring a required hunting season for deer by wiping out all the natural predators, now without them we have to have culls. If you participate in said culls, PLEASE eat the meat, use the pelt, give the antlers to your dog. We’ve forced ourselves into a position where some of us MUST take up the mantle of predator. If you choose to, just be responsible with the carcass so it didn’t die for no good reason.

        Edit: accidentally lied, I’m not a vegetarian I’m a pescatarian who outside of her 6 shrimp a week is vegan.

              • IngeniousRocks (They/She) @lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                4·
                19 hours ago

                Probably? Idk I’ve never managed to remember to take supplements, I’ve got some gnarly adhd. I’ve been working on the same bottle of Vitamins for like 6 years, YaKnow?

                So like, yeah I’m sure there’s a supplement, but I also don’t think it’s that big a deal to eat 6 oceanic mud bugs a week.

                (For reference the reason I ever went vegan at all was in response to driving past an overcrowded slaughterhouse and seeking the conditions the animals were kept in, it was horrific. I avoid farmed animal products like the plague, and I try to be responsible in the amount of hunted animal products I use, like I said, just 6 scrimps a week.

                • grysbokEnglish
                  3·
                  17 hours ago

                  Makes sense. Taking supplements is hard. My doctor wants me taking krill oil for the omegas and it’s 1. hard to find any that doesn’t come in cow (or mystery) gelatin and 2. hard to actually take the things.

                  My B12 is a tad easier because it tastes like candy and is fun to melt under the tongue, but I still don’t take it regularly.

        • grysbokEnglish
          22·
          2 days ago

          To add a wrinkle: there’s now “farmed deer”. It’s supposedly more environmentally friendly than farmed cow, but I don’t like it because •vague feelings I’ve not fully examined•.

          So don’t assume any venison you find in the grocery store was hunted.

          • Machinist@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            19 hours ago

            Farmed cervids are why CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease) is a thing. It’s a prion disease. Farmed venison has a high probability of being CWD positive.

            It’s called a high fence operation. Rich fucks actually pay for a canned hunt inside the fence so they get a big antlered wall hanger.

            Myself and my family like to eat does. Curbs population faster and tends to be better meat. We live in a county that is overpopulated with white tail.

            • Jax@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              1·
              16 hours ago

              Ahhh, I had no idea the connection between farmed deer and CWD.

              So, I’m assuming that CWD in deers is caused in the same way that BSE is in cows? It’s miraculous there aren’t any hicks that have contracted the CJD equivalent from CWD deers.

              • Machinist@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                16 hours ago

                Yeah, it’s pretty much the cervid version of Mad Cow. Affects whitetail, mule, moose, elk, maybe some Asian deer. Current research is pointing to it not being human transmissible but they have had lab transmission in primates with direct neuro tissue transfer. It’s highly infectious and stays in the ground for years.

                Captive deer lick noses through the fence with wild deer and greatly helped the spread.

                • Jax@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                  2·
                  14 hours ago

                  There’s so much we still don’t understand about prions, I have a horrible feeling that it should be phrased 'it’s not transmissible to humans yet '.

          • setVeryLoud(true);@lemmy.caEnglish
            8·
            1 day ago

            Vague feelings? I think your feelings are pretty spot-on, farming an animal whose population is already excessive in the wild is bizarre.

            Wild deer are more environmentally friendly than farmed deer.

            • grysbokEnglish
              6·
              1 day ago

              The feelings are vague because I can’t put them confidently into words, but your explanation resonates.

      • ryedaft@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        21·
        13 hours ago

        Pretty sure you can hunt nursing deer in most places.

        Edit: can’t! You can’t hunt while the babies are babies.

        • grysbokEnglish
          2·
          17 hours ago

          The hunting season is timed such that most fans are weaned before un-antlered adults may be shot. Source: Kentucky department of fish & wildlife summer camp in the 90s. Unfortunately, deer aren’t always born or weaned according to statistics, but the law tries to prevent it.

          This article on the ethics of shooting a doe with fawn from the hunter’s view corroborates this. CW: bloodless photo of a dead deer

          • ryedaft@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            2·
            13 hours ago

            CAN’T!

            Ducking autocarrot.

            But I think fin whales nurse for 2+ years making seasons a bit tricky (with some of the big whales the bulls have a quite ungentlemanly behaviour towards calfs iirc).

            • grysbokEnglish
              1·
              13 hours ago

              No worries! Sometimes the fingers don’t type what the brain wants them to, and then the eyes skip the typo when you proofread. Thanks for clarifying 💜

              • ryedaft@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                2·
                12 hours ago

                Yeah, and now my new comment about bull whales is a bit of a non sequiturs. I’m just tired man.

      • qjkxbmwvz@startrek.websiteEnglish
        81·
        2 days ago

        Only time I’ve eaten meat in the past ~30 years was when I ate some invasive fish that had been caught in a killathon to restore native habitat. Not that it’s my role to “give you a pass,” but I certainly do in this case!

        • grysbokEnglish
          131·
          2 days ago

          Apparently there’s spear fisherfolk in Florida that kill invasive lionfish and provide them to local restaurants. I’m all for killing and eating invasive species.

  • andybytes@programming.devEnglish
    17·
    13 hours ago

    Hahahahahhahah look bruh we are all gonna die in a nuclear war so justice will be served…omgawd this is hilarious

  • TheObviousSolution@lemm.eeEnglish
    314·
    16 hours ago

    If there were fish artists, do you think they would draw depressing pictures of whales obliterating entire colonies just to feed themselves, or humans doing the same for entire ecosystems?

    I’m all for taking better care of our ecosystems, but let’s face it, a lot of animals are assholes whose lives literally depends on preying on other animals. I also don’t like to hear plants scream: https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/24473/20191218/a-group-of-scientists-suggest-that-plants-feel-pain.htm

    • NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ@lemmy.worldEnglish
      13·
      16 hours ago

      Here’s the difference: humans are unique in our understanding of these systems and have the empathy and ability to make better choices.

      I wouldn’t expect a whale to track the ethical and environmental impacts of its pod’s consumption, not because it shouldn’t, but because it literally does not have the intellectual capacity to do so.

      • theolodis@feddit.orgEnglish
        3·
        16 hours ago

        To be fair, a lot of humans also seem to lack the intellectual capacity to consider the ethical implications of their consumption, specially when confronted with the unimaginable cruelty and suffering we cause to animals just to eat something tasty with low individual effort.

      • TheObviousSolution@lemm.eeEnglish
        32·
        15 hours ago

        The environment has been shaped by countless extinctions over millennia. The environment does not need white knights, it simply is. Another entirely is what we would like it to be. A whale “tracking the ethical and environmental impacts of its pod’s consumption” would be at a competitive disadvantage to those who don’t. specially given that they are carnivores who don’t have the privilege of omnivore white knighting. Not eating meat is them dying en masse unless one of them is able to survive off of plants somehow, if at all. Bulls will skewer anyone who go near their territory, and they are herbivores, nature does not share your concerns not because of intellectual capacity but because they don’t need to.

        We can track the ethical and environmental impacts, but we only do so within our own perspective. It is a trait of any animal to show empathy for that which they do care about, and ignorance and even disdain for that which they do not. People who care about the feelings of animals, feelings they do have, do so because they have the luxury of not becoming fodder. Not only people, but animals in captivity who are fed and need not worry about where their food or if they are food have been shown to express this notion as well.

        Life exists to survive. Don’t think your ethical and environmental concerns will afford you likewise considerations from other animals, from humans to whales alike. Just because you feel and because they feel does not mean they will care. You pick your fights, you want to care about whales, you might end up caring too much about everything before ever finding yourself getting kicked to the ground because of a dystopian hellscape that was too out of focus for you coming from your own species. Will you ask if the concerns you chose to erect walls around helped you out then?

        Our ecosystems are doomed to change just as we are, but we should not accelerate their change unless we are ready to change ourselves. Unfortunately, the entire ocean is changing now, and if anything major governments driven by profits have made sure we are not ready to change. F-ing whaling is the least of my worries nowadays because so much more has become concerning.

  • Phen@lemmy.eco.brEnglish
    201·
    2 days ago

    Tried making a joke here before reading more about it and now I regret the joke so I edited this out.

    • arsCynic@beehaw.orgEnglish
      31·
      22 hours ago

      The human experience is built on cruelty.

      Well, almost. The human experience of the imperial core is built on cruelty. I’m pretty sure the Native Americans weren’t slaughtering animals on an industrial scale.

      - -
      ✍︎ arscyni.cc: modernity ∝ nature.

      • stray@pawb.socialEnglish
        2·
        20 hours ago

        Depending on which Native Americans we’re taking about, some of them drove entire herds of bison over cliffs. Our European ancestors hunted the mastodon to extinction, I think? In Australia and New Zealand a bunch of reptiles and the moa birds were wiped out by humans.

        I don’t think most humans are ever thinking about genocide exactly (probably some are/were), but that they’re focused on feeding and defending their communities and not considering the balance of the ecosystem.