- cross-posted to:
- Obviously@europe.pub
- trump_watch@lemm.ee
- cross-posted to:
- Obviously@europe.pub
- trump_watch@lemm.ee
Who besides everyone with half a brain could have seen this coming?
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Trump Tax.
spread it, use it, never stop using it.
“Whelp! Paid $30 more, damn Trump tax, right?”
THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT OF TARIFFS!!! JFC. The fantasy is that if we pay more for imported goods domestic goods will become more competitive. If prices don’t go up we aren’t incentivized to change our buying habits. Is this not fucking obvious?
Donald Trump was wrong. Donald Trump is wrong. He does not understand tariffs or trade economies at all. He is all brazen bluster while being sneaky about other things.
What amazes me is the venn diagram of people who think the other countries were going to pay for the tariffs and the people who think we can’t have healthcare because the rich will just pass the taxes down to us is a circle.
If they don’t understand tax incidence, then they’ll believe it can be legislated.
Don’t know what’s worse, the people who still believe that; or the folks that believe the tariffs are to pay for Trump getting rid of income taxes. Any day now those taxes will disappear…
I wasn’t aware there was an argument.
The tariff speculation has despeculated.
There never was. Just weaponized ignorance or pure lies.
In the same way a parent argues with a child over whether ice cream is healthy or not.
Really?
I mean kids know ice cream is bad for them, at some level. But arguing who pays tariffs is like arguing whether water is wet. That’s what tariffs are, by definitions. Anybody who thinks China or whoever will pay tariffs in their place doesn’t know what tariffs are.
That’s why it boggles the mind that Trump keeps - or at least kept - saying other countries would pay his tariffs and nobody ever corrected him: all it takes is opening a dictionary at TARIFF to know he’s full of shit.
Who would even downvote your comment above.
Tarrifs = Tax
The tax is paid by local importers, then passed onto the local consumers.
It’s the same argument I have at the store when I try and make the store pay sales tax. “Well, it saaaaaid $9.99 and I only have $10.00 on me.”
Have you tried what civilized countries do? Like putting prices including all taxes on the price tags?
No, that’s crazy talk. We like to be surprised when we pay for taxes and tips.
It’s because we don’t use a VAT, so taxes are not consistent rates by item or by locality. So for small shops with irregular supply chains, you price the thing however matches your bottom line, then let the register do the work on the final price.
For large chains, it’s about consistency. The McDonals 99 cent menu might vary state by state and city by city from the $1.25 menu to still $0.99. An advert for a TV at Walmart would have to list dozens of different prices applicable across the, many within a nominal price of each other.
There’s practical reasons, and Americans seem to think a VAT is essential communism (why, I have no clue), so its not likely to change any time soon.
It’s because we don’t use a VAT, so taxes are not consistent rates by item or by locality. So for small shops with irregular supply chains, you price the thing however matches your bottom line, then let the register do the work on the final price.
So if the register knows the price, why do you leave normal people hanging? For me, that sounds highly unpractucal not to know what an item costs, or being forced to know all the local taxes and do the calculation myself.
Because the benefit is that we’ve habituated ourselves to a system where $9.99^plus tax^ is both good advertising, and it means that the vendor passes the tax on to the consumer. As if they can just their up their hands and say “Sorry man, I don’t like it either. Here’s how much you owe the government.” Gas prices all include a tax of 9/10 of 1 cent per gallon for the same reason.
It also likely stems from early on implementation where no one was sure of the vendor actually paid all those taxes after all, so it’s a bit of “added transparency” even though it’s not really.
Of course, it’s 2025, this would be an easy thing to undo, but Americans are creatures of habit as much as anyone else. Try and charge a Boomer $10 even and say tax is included, they will absolutely think you’re ripping them off.
It’s proven that disguising the tax convinces the ignorant consumer the product is cheaper than it really is. So stores don’t include taxes on the price tag, and lobbyists work hard to prevent it being legislated.
That is the only reason. It’s not transparency, this is the exact opposite.
People from New Hampshire when they go anywhere else
Common American mistake, confusing abuse for an argument.
Wwwaaahh!
No it’s “Wwwwwaaaaaahhhhhh” try again
There was never any argument, there was the indisputable fact that that’s how it is, and then there was lying Trump MAGA propaganda denying the facts.
It is a profound example of how stupid people are that this was even a question.
Dictionaries have existed for millennia. Google is free. We have access to the full library of the collective knowledge of the human race on a magic rock in our pockets. And something this simple was a national debate.
You can lead a horse to water
But it’s only right twice a day.
It was more of an educated vs uneducated discussion.
I guess some Americans learned they were lied to, but they probably won’t believe it anyways…
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
What argument?
The “argument” was that the idiots who enacted the tariffs without understanding what tariffs are were trying to push the blame anywhere else, and pretty much everyone has clocked their bullshit
Arguement
\sigh
Me, too.
Really, there is only two good reasons to make tariffs. One is to increase the price of goods coming from outside of the country vs the price of goods made in the country. Americans paying more is a feature. This, of course, makes us mad when we pay for those more expensive things and makes us more likely to buy the things made in America. This anger isn’t politically expedient, so the Trumper lies to make it seem like there will be no change and that gets to be the big news item.
The second reason for tariffs is to make American goods cheaper in other countries. Ideally If he sets the tariffs to automatically match the tariffs other countries have on imports of American goods, those countries will adjust their tariffs down to make their goods sell better in America. Then, supposing that happens, American goods would be more competitive in those markets.
In theory all that is pretty fair… especially if the tariffs are exactly matching the other country’s tariffs.
Arbitrary or punitive tariffs are counter-productive to both of those items.
Unfortunately, it seems like this basic theory is as far as anybody is planning. Also, Trump is loud and obnoxious about everything that is done.
The biggest obvious problem is that the US doesn’t have the manufacturing capabilities anymore, so disrupting the trade hurts American companies designed around getting their manufacturing done outside of the country.
People’s wages and living expenses are planned around cheap imports, this puts a strain on the lowest paid people in our country.
Really, if the tariffs ‘work out’ then it is a good thing, but they definitely seem to be ham-fisting it.
I think in trumps mind, the US raises tariffs, which is a line item on the imported goods, he collects said line item. Imported goods end price stays the same (this is what he tried selling to the gullible) and other countries lose out.
Reality is, he raises tariffs, which is a line item on the imported goods, and he collects said line item. Imported goods price goes up. The only loser here is the end user (american) consumer.
Anyone paying attention knew “Reality” was the only outcome
I don’t know what is in Trump’s head. His handlers, at least, if not Trump himself, probably expected the raise in price. The whole price staying same thing is just a story to tell the people who would be paying that higher price and be mad about it. Either Trump knows this or his handlers know this. It isn’t a miscalculation on their part, it is just how tariffs are supposed to move the market. I don’t think Trump gets the tariff money, though he can put it on paper somewhere where it looks good for him. Really, whether or not tariffs raise the price of goods is a nonissue that just gets the news buzzing. The issue that should be on top is whether the approach is going to work at all. I can’t find a source that can step back and analyze it. Either they are pro Trump and will lie to make it sound good, or they are anti Trump and they will over-blow it to try to cause as much fear as possible, whether it is actually doing the real job of alleviating the trade deficit or not.
The outrage is misplaced, it should be laser focused on the administration outsourcing prisons for immigrants, and maybe citizens. Making everything into an emergency is turning all this reporting into white noise, obscuring the real issues.
For sure that I had been his plan all along… Distraction after distraction… Hey look over here!
That is definitely his plan. Why else would he be so loud and purposefully using language designed to make people furious? I don’t think the tariffs are his end game, but he is keeping something hidden behind all these theatrics. He is (probably) not going to run again, so what else could he be up to working everybody up like this? Could be that he is desperately hoping to slip away without going to prison for all his other crap.
like in nov-dec when the talks of tariffs were starting after he won, and conservatives said its no big deals.
can someone pay my tariffs? Thanks
