The Series is now over. we can now officially declare we avoided it! Not one Jedi, not one sith, not one appearance of Vader of the emperor, not one lightsaber, not one physical manifestation of “The Force”. They actually did Star wars with zero bullshit.
These couple of weeks, Hexbear has been full of Andor posts. Considering these last 3 episodes were probably the best television I’ve ever seen in my life, I figure there are gonna be a lot of people who want to share their thoughts on the finale.
I’ll be honest, until episode 10, I thought Season 2 wasn’t for me. it’s wasn’t bad but I just felt it didn’t have the punch of Season 1. that season gave us novel tropes like a gold heist, a prison break, a riot, etc. season 2 was a more character focused set up for rogue one.
but the last 3 episodes, they changed everything. every minute was amazing.
Andor is often called perfect for someone who doesn’t think they like star wars. If it was just a standalone sci-fi spy thriller, it would be still be the best thing on television, but what’s truly the crowning accomplishment is that if you do know a lot about star wars, it somehow becomes ever better. This show redeems other media in this franchise. it redeems rogue one, it even strengthens Episode 4.
How much the destruction of the death star cost. In episode 4, the audience is shown “It was a longshot, but somehow a backwater orphan pilot managed to score the killing shot and destroy the battle station.”
in Rogue One, they’re shown “Okay, it was an even longer shot than that, because before they got to that point, they had to do a big adventure culiminating in getting the plans off Scarif with just seconds to spare”
And I always thought that was sort of weak, because it’s a work of fiction. fiction naturally collects around the execution of extremely lucky acts. how ever unlikely their success was is ultimately arbitrary, they can always be written to succeed in spite of the odds.
But it’s not about their luck, it’s about their sophistication. it’s that the rebels were doing all of these things collectively and competently, that they had become what they needed to be at their finest hour, and all the contributions, all the sacrifices of every single character all lead to this being possible.
Or I’m just high an none of this makes sense.
I liked how the imperials failed to prevent the superweapon leak because of careerist competition in their ranks, and how each of the fascists who were developed as characters died full of doubt about how they spent their lives. Delicious.
I saw someone describe Karn’s death as “crushing” in an article and it’s like no it was perfect, he sucked.
Crushing from his perspective – in sort of a Javert/Jean Valjean sort of way, but it turns out to be completely one-sided on Javert/Syril’s part.
Yeah I love the one sided part. It was like an inverted version of “But for me, it was Tuesday” from Street fighter.
Perfect encapsulation of how pathetic fascist society really is
I’m glad my boy Wilmon is safe
He lives to huff gasoline another day
I had to rewatch that scene like 3 times to understand what the hell was happening
One of those things that younger generations might not realise is petrol/gasoline used to smell great and make you feel a slight high.
People used to huff it before safer Low aromatic was introduced.
That scene kind of echoes that and suggests maybe that is why Saw’s breathing is steadily worsening.
Incredible that Tony Gilroy came along and just made the best thing Star Wars has put out since 1980. Why would he do that?
My personal enjoyment of the operatic tragedy that is Revenge of the Sith might edge out Andor, slightly, but loving ROTS is what I imagine it must feel like to have a kid who’s a real screw-up. You love them and you see all the best parts of them, but you can’t deny the mistakes they’ve made. But unlike ROTS I don’t needs to qualify my enjoyment of Andor. It’s not like twenty years from now I’m going to say “oh I like Andor but have you read the novelization? It completely realizes what that show was trying to do,” like I do now with both ROTS and Rogue One.
I think next paycheck I’m going to splurge and buy a lot of the old X-wing novel series if I can find one that’s not too high.
Also I can’t believe we learn some of Luthen’s backstory. I just assumed he was someone a bit like Mon Mothma, using his real name and the real identity he had during the time of the Republic as an antiquities dealer as a cover for his rebel activities. Much more interesting to learn that he was an NCO with a penchant for artifacts who got fed up one day and made a choice of where to stand, just like the people he recruits. Interesting that it seems no one, not even Kleya, will ever know Luthen’s real name or who he really was before he rebelled.
Also it’s contributes to the fact Ghorman and Alderaan were simply the violence coming back to the imperial core, the empire was slaughtering people across the outer and mid rim for years, Cintra’s family, Kleya’s, hanging Cassian’s adoptive father etc.
I like that Luthen’s backstory preempts Clean Wehrmacht Myth style talk of the Imperial Army which I think Solo played into a bit
I mean Solo wasn’t exactly making fancy desserts on Mimban. And if you recall Cassian was with the rebels there.
Cassian fought on Mimban but we don’t know where that lines up with Solo.
Cassian also says he wasn’t even fighting imperials but other rebels/partisans, so a backwater civil war between separatists.
Then the Empire came in later to mop up is possible.
Cassian was there with the empire. Remember it was a penal unit, he was jailed for attacking a trooper with a stick, spent time in prison, got sent as a penal battalion according to him though Luthen says he was a unit cook. He was 100% on the side of the Empire as prison labor. The Mimbanese had been Republic aligned and trained by clones, but fought against the Empire sometime later. The scenes are too dark to make anything out, but the costumes for them have them using retrofitted or broken clone armor.
Make sense, I was misremembering.
Remember it was a penal unit,
I re-watched the scene, read wookiepedia and a few Reddit threads and the phrasing is pretty ambiguous and there’s a bit of disagreement.
Out of a cell and into the mud could definitely be read as penal unit or a just released prisoner volunteering in a flash point on another planet.
I did actually read it as penal unit the first time I watched and then as separatist after listening to “A more civilised age” podcast on Andor, where that was their take.
I suspect Mimbaan was a 9 way clusterfuck between the Empire, Republic rebels, Sepratist rebels, Random wierd space-trots, and 4 different types of localist fascist.
if you recall Cassian was with the rebels there.
I had completely missed that one, good catch
Hey, I’m someone who likes AotC despite its many flaws and I’ve never met a single person who does.
I love AOTC, on paper. A hard-boiled detective story; Star-crossed lovers; A political thriller; All set across the epic backdrop of space in an age where a once great government is coming to its end. What’s not to love?
In practice though if ROTS is a screw-up child, and TPM is like a kid who you thought was going to be president but then ended up as a working mid-tier stand-up comic like just enough to make a living but not enough to “make it”, then AOTC is a kid who grew up to be a serial killer.
Also I’m pretty sure the novelization is by R.A. Salvatore. I’ve not read it but I have read some of his other novels and the man’s not a miracle worker like Stover.
I love the version of AOTC that lives in my head, but every seven years or so when I convince myself to do a rewatch I find I just can’t enjoy it. Some really great ideas, but the execution of them is something else. I really think that with the right script doctor, some judicious editing, and maybe a second director who is just in charge of the actors, it could have been something really great. But what we’re left with is tough to love. But I respect you for doing what I can not.
Yeah, I agree. I will say Beyond the Stars does a lot of heavy lifting and the love scenes are a admirable failure. It’s hard to show two damaged people who are bad for each other genuinely in love without the jarring stilted tone shifts. A better dialogue writer than Lucas (who isn’t a bad storyteller but is so visual it’s hard to fix) could have done it.
All I can say is, THANK GOD!
I want to see that droid after Endor wearing more medals than Zhukov
“We fight to win. That means we lose… and lose, and lose, and lose. Until we’re ready.” - Luthen
That makes me feel better about losing all the time.
I liked Season 1 but thought Season 2 was great. Maybe I need to rewatch season 1.
I enjoyed it all. The only thing I don’t like is that a Star Wars show seems to be the only way to get a high-budget story about actual empire. Maybe Coogler’s X-Files will go into the deep state more than the original.
Man I hated star wars before and had to be convinced multiple times to watch this. One of the best tv shows i’ve ever watched, abolutely incredible. Star wars will never be this good again.
I will remember Nemik’s manifesto. And I keep coming back to the Past/Present Suite.
The only way I think they could sustain it is some kind of dense political drama, either about the collapse of the New Republic or the structural rebuilding needed after episode 9.
Krennic has read the uniform code.
Legit one of the greatest pieces of sci-fi to ever grace the screen
pretty funny that Andor’s sister was a total red herring that was never explored beyond the very first scene of the series.
Oh yes, and that little detail about
young Kleya and Andor’s sister looking very alike was also a funny thing. Yet another red herring, because no, Kleya is not Andor’s sister.
I wrote a fucking paper on the first season of Andor and I can confidently say I do not regret doing that. I opened the paper with Nemik’s manifesto, and I have probably listened to this one monolog so many times I could repeat it by heart. And then these last three episodes hit, and I’m glued to the screen, keeping it together, and they just play it again, and I’m a crying mess. God, academic writing will never again be this much fun, but also, Star Wars will never again be this much fun.
please share?
Unfortunately, it’d be a major doxx, so no
I like that the only surviving ISB supervisor we know by name is Lagret, the bald guy who was just kind of average at his job, the “competent” and ambitious ones like Meero, Heert and Blevin (disappeared off screen) are gone along with Partagaz.
Like perhaps a bunch of sociopaths competing against each other and getting purged for failure isn’t an effective structure for an organisation.
I am going to make my mushroom soup now
spoiler
For spy masterminds who had a massive fortune at one point and plenty of time to figure something out, they had a shitty escape plan. And why’d he shoot Lonni?
Overall, a lot of characters felt forced in to outcomes to fit with Rogue One.
I thought there were some pretty shots, the way things where framed. I like how actors look and are lit in bright white rooms, every pore and hair follicle visible, like in THX 1138 (george lucas reference?).
spoiler
Luthen knew he was compromised for a long time, but stayed active on Coruscant for longer than he was safe to in order gather intel on the super weapon, which made Yavin cut ties. he still tried to escape when he got the intel, but he trusted it to Kleya as he still had to destroy his base before leaving. Lonni was a liability who would lead them directly to Luthen, though Luthen didn’t realize it wouldn’t make a difference in how quickly he’d be found. he was also behaving erratically and betrayed Luthen by not leveraging his stolen password far earlier.
Sorry, but I don’t think your facts are correct here, and I don’t get your reasoning.
They didn’t know he was compromised or that there was a super weapon until Lonni told him.
They could have had a deadman’s-switch self-destruct (as well as a booby trap for unauthorized access) rigged on the comms console. They could have had a backup escape vehicle, and at one point it sounded like they did when Luthen last met with Kleya, but then Kleya just goes and hides at the same safehouse (did they run out of money for new sets/locations?), and has to get Andor to rescue her?
They had immense resources and time to plan contingencies. Instead Luthen botches his cleanup and his suicide. It’s betrayal of the competency these characters had been established to have. Meero too. She does a silly villain monologue with an unsubdued and visibly armed Luthen.
They could have all flown out together immediately and went to Yavin, which is what Kleya ends up doing anyway. They could have brought in the equivalent of Kim Philby with firsthand knowledge to lend credibility to their intel. The only reason it didn’t go down that way is because they need to make it fit with Rogue One, and when Gilroy doesn’t know what to do with a character he kills them off in a kind of stupid avoidable way. It was Gilroy’s idea to kill off all the characters in Rogue One, btw.
Oh also Bix’s ending struck me as corny.
Oh also Bix’s ending struck me as corny.
Just be thankful she didn’t say something like, “There, there, Cassian.”
I was waiting for that the entire time and was glad when it didn’t happen. But let’s be real, Disney’s gonna try and milk this for all it’s worth, so we’re probably getting to see Cassian Andor Jr. in his own show very soon, playing long after the Empire has fallen, and then trying to retrace his father’s steps OR he’s gonna be a cameo in the 3rd season of Ahsoka, like a playmate for Hera’s son. And Bix then probably gets mainstreamed too.
Oh, lol. I wasn’t even thinking of that, it was just so cliche I was surprised she didn’t say it. You’re probably right though.
I think one of the things lost from not have 5 seasons as initially planned is we skip over Luthen’s rise and fall in relevance to the rebellion and perhaps having time to show him starting to get sloppy under the strain.
So I agree he seemed to carry the idiot ball at the backend of the series.
Meero was fucked up enough that I could see her (especially after Cyrils’s death) confronting him for the psychosexual thrill of finally winning.
That does make sense. Thanks.
Overall, a lot of characters felt forced in to outcomes to fit with Rogue One.
I liked Draven though much more than I thought I would. He kind of wants to be Andor’s work dad, scolding him when he breaks protocol but vouching for him when he’s not present.
And when Andor gets erased from the rescuing Mon Mothma narrative, he seems heartfelt in his offer to listen to the speech with Cassian in his office.
Hey, uh, what do I watch after this ends? I’m on the final episode and am supposed to be making mushroom soup.
If you want more Andor…
Motorcycle Diaries, then Che part 1/2.
Clearly it’s too late now, but I think the answer is to just jump into watching A New Hope.
click here to read my proselytizing about the Rogue One novelization, which I do every time the film is mentioned
I think the best way to experience Rogue One is to listen to the audiobook. The book papers over the worst parts of the movie and adds some much-needed dimensions to Jyn Erso, and I really like the audiobook narrator they got for it. But then I am biased because of course I saw the movie first. I had already experienced the performances. Do Saw Guerra and Orson Krennic really work on the page if you’ve never seen Forrest Whittaker and Ben Mendelsohn’s performances? I’ll never know. Then again we get some of Galen(Jyn’s father, the scientist)'s POV and I think the character is much stronger in the book than the film, ditto for nearly all the characters but Galen and Jyn especially, so maybe it all balances out.
Rogue One is next chronologically, but I wouldn’t say it shares much with Andor apart from the characters.
Jenny Nicholson pretty much mirrors all the thoughts I had when Rogue One came out, and this is coming from someone who really liked The Force Awakens
Lol @2:15 “Man, it’s starting to feel like all the interesting stuff in Rogue One happened before Rogue One, maybe we need a prequel to Rogue One? Just kidding.” Perfection.
Rogue One is a land of contrasts. It could be the best film ever and it still would be the first time anyone used CGI to resurrect a non consenting dead actor tainting it morally.
But it’s also got wretched vibes at points, kind of orientalist with the force sensitive monk guy, kind of racist in the way Saw’s faction when not scary aliens are dark skinned and terrorist coded, compared to the pasty Yavin 4 crew. Kind of lib too.
And the first 2/3rds is kind of janky, a series of disconnected vignettes, some good, some meh.
But the last 1/3rd is pretty fantastic star wars, the jumping between Jyn and Cassian infiltration, the battle on the ground with the rebels trying to sow confusion, the battle in space, the U-wings and X-Wings racing through the closing shield gate to give support even though it’s a suicide mission with no way back. All really great.
Also the film does a lot to show how the rebellion is an alliance with factions that coalesce and fragment given the circumstances, which makes the original trilogy make more sense. And Andor then expanded on.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Rogue One, then Columbo. Unless your dog just passed away last week and you can’t watch the scenes with Dog without bawling your eyes out
I’m halfway through Rogue One and the characterisation is so different. Also, the story mainly revolves around non-Force Rey. Not sure what’s up with the Death Star only destroying a city when the whole point is to keep it secret. Very plot.
Krennic is kinda similar, but he’s more of a power tripping asshole in Andor as he’s the most institutionally powerful person in the story. Also barely shows up in Andor.
I think Tony Gilroy worked a lot better without the constraints of the Disney movie police. Everything is very cartoony in Rogue One.
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Yes, I thought that explanation seemed papered on. But idk, it’s the Empire and no one ever said fascists were particularly good at thinking their enemies were competent.
Tarkin has been itching to use the Death Star for 20 years at that point and wanted to try out the wunderwaffen
I think Tony Gilroy worked a lot better without the constraints of the Disney movie police. Everything is very cartoony in Rogue One.
He didn’t do most of the writing they brought him in at the end to fix it up and someone else directed (Gareth Edwards).
Parts that are good are probably Gilroy, he cut the romance between Jyn and Erso and pushed to have them all die.
pushed to have them all die.
Read the YA book “rebel rising” which is about Jyn. It peters off, but the first half 2/3 is focused on her and Saw and is fucking fantastic. Pretty much letting Saw proselytize about how a rebellion requires violence and that people will only fight once the empire has created a pile of bodies so high it dwarfs them, and someone needs to create that be it dead imps those fighting back cause, or civilians the empire slaughters, but either way the rebellion will stand atop corpses. The latter half is weak teen romance, though then it picks back up with Jyn depressed in prison and waiting for death. That shit gets dark for a star wars novel
michael clayton
the bourne identity
