Time is on the side of the Russians in Ukraine and the Chinese on pretty much anything else when it comes to confronting the US empire.

But ever since the ceasefire in Lebanon and the fall of Assad I can’t help but feel that the Palestinian cause is getting worse every day. No one is lifting a finger for them except the Yemenis and it only seems that the Zionist fucks are getting closer to their objectives.

Civil war in “Israel” when? True Promise 3 when (lol)?

It doesn’t help that some of the loudest voices cheering for Assad’s fall where Palestinians and that sectarism is strong against Shia’s…

  • WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.mlEnglish
    11·
    4 days ago

    Ukraine had just been couped by fascists, isn’t it the correct thing to do to support ethnic minorities that are being massacred by fascists? You know, like how Iran supports Hezbollah and Ansarallah?

    Can we slow down and go through this properly?

    So first of all, when you say it’s a coup what do we mean? Do you agree that there appears to be evidence of mass protests and that the Ukrainian people were themselves protesting their own government in the streets (which violently resisted and unjustly put down many of these protests) before the so called coup occurred?

    Some 10,000 demonstrators against the Ukraine’s decision to not sign a landmark trade deal with the European Union descended on a square outside a monastery early Saturday in response to a police crackdown on the earlier protests.

    The emboldened demonstrators waved Ukrainian and EU flags and sang the national anthem outside the St. Michael’s Golden-Domed Monastery, where groups of protesters retreated earlier after a sweep by riot police left seven people hospitalized and dozens under arrest at Independence Square.

    https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/30/world/europe/ukraine-eu-protests/index.html

    Ukraine’s imprisonment of the former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko was a politically motivated violation of her rights, Europe’s human rights court has ruled.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/30/yulia-tymoshenko-jailing-politically-motivated

    Earlier, hundreds of officers used chainsaws to pull down the barriers, which had been manned by pro-Western demonstrators. Clashes led to reports of injuries on both sides.

    https://www.cnn.com/2013/12/11/world/europe/ukraine-protests/index.html

    Next, when you say the newly installed government are “fascists” what do you mean? Which ethnic minorities were being massacred and why? When did the massacring of minorities start and when did the Crimea invasion happen in relation to it?

    These are being presented as though Crimea was a direct response to a documented genocide. Is that chronology and claim correct?

    I don’t think it’s fair to characterize the separatists as a Russian invasion, even if they are de facto Russian proxies.

    I can accept that.

    I just felt it was unfair to characterize the direct response to these Russian proxies as “6 years before any conflict started”.

    And yes, it is a bit silly to link a youtube video. The reason I like that one is that they have the phone call with Victoria Nuland and I think the way he frames it is very nice for illustrating the point, that the West was recklessly installing a fascist government with the goal of threatening Russia.

    Fair enough, I’ll check out that clip specifically.

    Ultimately though, I sort of know they’d laugh. When the two teams are neoliberals vs (the liberal definition of) imperialists whoever side you support is gonna be laughing at you because they’re playing a bigger game.

    • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      8·
      3 days ago

      So first of all, when you say it’s a coup what do we mean?

      I mean that while all the unrest was going on, Victoria Nuland quite literally dictated which figures in Ukraine were to come to power. That doesn’t invalidate the pro-democracy protests, and I don’t believe that the US was manipulating everyone into showing up to get mad at their corrupt government. The thing is that the US opportunistically takes these movements and uses their soft power media outlets like Voice of America and Radio Free Europe to amplify the movement and push it in the direction they wish. This is called a color revolution.

      The same thing happened in Georgia, Hong Kong, and various countries in the Arab Spring. It happened all over Eastern Europe toward the end of the Cold War.

      Here’s a fun one, the term “Revolution of Dignity” actually was coined by a far right Ukrainian Nationalist group!

      https://www.researchgate.net/post/When-was-the-term-Revolution-of-Dignity-initially-used-in-reference-to-the-protests-in-Ukraine-in-November-2013-February2014

      Next, when you say the newly installed government are “fascists” what do you mean? Which ethnic minorities were being massacred and why? When did the massacring of minorities start and when did the Crimea invasion happen in relation to it?

      I mean that there were significant elements of the new administration that were Banderites. Ukrainian nationalists and right wing violence against ethnic minorities is pervasive throughout Ukraine, it’s not exactly like I can point to one specific time where the massacre machine got turned on again because the way these fascist groups work is not centralized like that.

      Here’s an NBC article about Ukraine’s Nazi problem

      Ultimately though, I sort of know they’d laugh. When the two teams are neoliberals vs (the liberal definition of) imperialists whoever side you support is gonna be laughing at you because they’re playing a bigger game.

      We’ll have to disagree on that one. Ibrahim Traore just got a medal in Moscow for being an ally against imperialism, and as complicated as my feelings toward Putin are, I would count Traore as an unequivocal ally against imperialism. I don’t think Russia laughs at us socialists, I think they are just as capable of doing materialist analysis as we are and understand the fundamental reasons why we’ve ended up on the same “side”. I recognize that the more we think about this aspect the sillier the whole thing is, seeing as the western left is not a fighting force with any weight on any stage, much less the internationalist struggle.

      Edit: issuing a correction, Traore has not received a medal, lol. I don’t know where I got that idea from. But he is invited to the 80th Victory Day celebration in Moscow this Friday. Putin, if you want my support, give the man a medal!