getting your opinions entirely from stand-up comics, Bigfoot forums, and various men named Dave might not be the optimal method for acquiring knowledge
I tried to watch this exchange but everyone involved was so unpleasant I couldn’t get through it.
Reminder that Douglas Murray is a committed conservative who is very supportive of fascism, as long as it has the ‘right’ victims. So much so that he’s gotten an award by Isaac Herzog in 2024.
Murray has been a supporter of Israel’s military response to the October 7 attacks by Hamas. He spent around 6 months in Israel, visiting Gaza twice, and writing in defense of Israel’s actions.
Murray said “conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board: Europe must look like a less attractive proposition.” and that “All immigration into Europe from Muslim countries must stop.” Murray’s former coworker at the Centre for Social Cohesion, James Brandon, interpreted this speech as calling for the collective punishment of Muslims
I started reading the article and I was curious what the context was and who was involved.
I was shocked to hear that it was Douglas Murray who got into a conflict with Rogan. Murray out of all people (I am aware of his chauvinism due to some other stuff).
What really struck me about this article was this:
Nine days and five shows later, Rogan hosted Tim Dillon, another anti-woke comic, and together they impersonated Murray’s voice like middle schoolers at a sleepover. (“You haven’t beeeeen?”)
I am not American, but I have lived there and travelled extensively. I have close friends who live there (both locals and immigrants from a very young age).
I would always defend the US as a force for good in the democratic world (albeit a very flawed one) and highlight that compared to other major powers (russia, china), the US has been involved in a very good outcomes (post WW2 Germany/Japan, Polands and the Baltic nations after the breakup of the USSR).
With the reelection of Trump, I am starting to wonder if this well ever be possible again (from my perspective Trump is a symptom, not a cause).
But Rogan’s behaviour is an example of degeneracy. True degeneracy. Not degenerate as a random insult or say the term “degenerate gambler”, but the actual term like in the dictionary. A regressive, undesirable behaviour that is an affront to the development of human society. And this is perhaps the largest media personality in the US.
It’s going to be very difficult for sane Americans to root out such degeneracy. And there are unfortunately (in my opinion) certain negative elements of American culture that are going to reinforce such behaviour. It will require novel approaches that I don’t believe American have the capability to explore (I hope I am wrong).
I would always defend the US as a force for good in the democratic world (albeit a very flawed one) and highlight that compared to other major powers (russia, china), the US has been involved in a very good outcomes (post WW2 Germany/Japan, Polands and the Baltic nations after the breakup of the USSR).
As an American who used to think that until I learned about the unabridged history of US domestic and foreign policy, the US has absolutely not been a force for good. In many, many cases, far from it.
Knowing Better has many well made videos on the domestic side, including company towns, neoslavery, and the Indian removal.
The US
Doesn’tMeddle in Foreign AffairsAmerica’s worldwide empire is made up of military bases, & how it became that way
Every Place America Has Bombed (and why)
United States involvement in regime change
In addition to the history of propping up fascist dictators for the benefit of US corporate business, the US has also backed and materially support multiple genocides
East Timor, Korea, Bangladesh, and Indonesia are the ones I know of. In addition to, of course, the ongoing genocide of Palestine.
There is of course also the war crimes the US has committed against the populations of Afghanistan, Cuba, Korea, Iraq, and Cambodia. Among many others
But Rogan’s behaviour is an example of degeneracy. True degeneracy. Not degenerate as a random insult or say the term “degenerate gambler”, but the actual term like in the dictionary. A regressive, undesirable behaviour that is an affront to the development of human society. And this is perhaps the largest media personality in the US.
This has nothing to do with degeneracy. Outside of STEM, this term has no real use. ‘Social Degeneracy’ goes back to scientific racism and eugenics and has been used historically to dehumanize.
Rogan, and practically every other alt-right podcaster, are reactionary and conservative. They are pro capitalism. Even when they acknowledge the material harms that people face, since they can’t rightfully recognize that capitalist exploitation is the root cause, they instead scapegoat minority groups such as immigrants, lgbt+, and pro-palestinian protesters.
Pro Netanyahu - yeah, sorry but no.
But it says something about Rogan and his ilk that even a guy like that would speak up against their BS.
And the article makes at least one excellent point:
Life was easier for them when Donald Trump was merely the punkish challenger to the presidency. Now Trump is in the White House, the former upstart independents of the Roganverse are the new establishment, and their desire for power without responsibility is being challenged.
You can see this everywhere. The whole “Don’t tread on me” narrative just doesn’t work anymore, but they can’t seem to find anything else even while they proclaim to be pumped that their guy is at the top now.
Please tread on me daddy!
I see what you did there. Subconsciously, that might even be the case, but they could never admit it. Or they dress it up like “willing to suffer for a bright future” because Donny’s playing super complicated 4D chess.
idk helen lewis is such an uninteresting writer
nothing splinters a movement like victory
Felt that
Could always be a leftist and experience splintering without victory.
I literally can’t go a full day on lemmy without seeing a self-described leftist shit on other left-leading groups.
“Oh you voted for Harris? You might as well have just went ahead and voted for Trump. She was going to do worse things to Gaza anyway”
“Bernie checks 90% of the boxes I want in a candidate but that last 10% is a total deal breaker, so he’s just another mainstream liberal”
Don’t mistake those fascists for socialists. They’re just cheering for the other empire and lying about it. They shit on left-leaning groups because those groups stand between them and the totalitarian regime they desire.
Or we can just accept the vulnerabilities of pluralistic ideals. Not every joke is an all out attack and mask off reveal. Your comment inceptions the leftist fighting by being so offended by it.
Leftism is a pointless rhetorical crutch for the politically illiterate, it doesn’t really exist. It’s a loose, essentially worthless grouping of a bunch of diverse ideologies that have little in common outside of being generally anti-fascist and not liberal
…I was going to do a joke on that angle but I couldn’t make it funny enough not to hurt
