From the first world war to the invasion of Iraq, left-wing soldiers have questioned our involvement in wars. Yet we rarely hear these dissenting veteran’s voices.

From the first world war to the invasion of Iraq, left-wing soldiers have questioned our involvement in wars. Yet we rarely hear these dissenting veteran’s voices.

  • ikt@aussie.zoneEnglish
    16·
    3 days ago

    because it’s stupid, pacifism doesn’t lead to less war, it leads to more suffering

    it’s the equivalent of saying don’t stand up to your bully just let him get away with it, in the end you lose and suffer more

    • Hanrahan@slrpnk.netEnglish
      6·
      2 days ago

      b>ecause it’s stupid, pacifism doesn’t lead to less war, it leads to more suffering

      You’ve confised self dence and pacislfism, they are not the same thing. A pacifist will always supoort self defence, like the Palestinians in Gaza,.the Houthi are the only onea defemding them, Ukrianians againt Russia

      Australian’s in Turkey, or in Vietnam or Malaysia etc not so much.

      it’s the equivalent of saying don’t stand up to your bully just let him get away with it, in the end you lose and suffer more

      So you’re argument is that indigenous Australia’s should stull be fightibg against the invasion ? I can onky agree.

      There was a quote by Geronimo who said his biggest mistake was giving up, he said they should have fought on, even if they all died.

      • sqgl@beehaw.orgEnglish
        23·
        2 days ago

        A pacifist will always supoort self defence, like the Palestinians in Gaza

        October 7 was not self defense.

        • eureka@aussie.zoneEnglish
          2·
          2 days ago

          It was an act of resistance within decades of besiegement and massacres by settlers. The situation was not peaceful beforehand, we cannot isolate that event and pretend it was sudden and unexpected. It’s fine to be critical of how it fought, but it was certainly an act of desperate national self defense against colonial settlement.

          • sqgl@beehaw.orgEnglish
            11·
            2 days ago

            Yes we can isolate it. And it was “peaceful” in Gaza (not in WB). All Jewish settlers were forced out of Gaza by Israel decades earlier.

            Israel isn’t going anywhere despite the Hamas “From the river to the sea…” delusion.

            Palestinians aren’t going anywhere either but now we have extreme right wingers in Israel adopting a similar catchphrase thanks to Oct 7. Hamas played into the hands of the Likud fascists.

            Neither population is vacating the Levant. That is the starting point for any resolution. Not 1967 or 1945 or 885BCE.

    • eureka@aussie.zoneEnglish
      2·
      2 days ago

      Out of the conflicts Australia has fought in, I can only think of one or two involving any threat to us.

    • MHLoppy@fedia.ioOP
      4·
      3 days ago

      If you had read the article before commenting, you would see that it’s not about a blanket no-war-ever-at-all sentiment (though of course per the quote there is some pure pacifism). As examples:

      However, Throssell’s anti-war views, derived from his firsthand knowledge of war and its consequences, were largely ignored.

      This pattern repeats across Australian history, from the first world war to the War on Terror. In every war, there have been a number of soldiers and veterans who turned against it, Some became pacifists, while others acknowledged the necessity of war in rare instances. They drew on their war experience to caution restraint, urging war-makers to reflect on Australian values and interests before committing Australian lives overseas. (emphasis added)

      Several International Brigade veterans went on to serve in the second world war, to continue their anti-fascist effort. Jim McNeil enlisted at the outbreak of war, just nine months after returning wounded from Spain. He and others like him “just hated fascism and wanted to fight it”, he explained.

      These stories show not all radical veterans became pacifists. Some recognised the necessity of countering the extreme threat fascism posed to Australia, at home and abroad. (emphasis added)

      In each of these cases, the protesting veterans were explicit that their opposition to war was about protecting Australian interests and values. Mansie, for instance, argued the Iraq War would “incite terrorism” and endanger Australians, something security experts agree was a lasting consequence of the War on Terror.

      He also argued involvement in an illegal war was not in “the fighting spirit of our nation and its defence force personnel”. Like those volunteers on the International Brigades in the 1930s, Mansie invoked the Anzac legend to support his position, framing Australian warfare as defending fairness and righteous causes. (emphasis added)