Have you seen this PW before, or used it yourself? At 3 mana, she is fairly cheap. There are two options:

  • +1: target creature gains vigilance and reach until your next turn
  • -2: Exile one of the top 3 cards of your library face down. If it’s a creature, you can cast it from exile even if Vivien is gone.

Her passive: You may cast creatures as though they had flash.

Of course, she doesn’t make much sense if you have lots of noncreature cards. You cannot choose to not exile a card for -2.

But since many decks are heavy on creatures, why isn’t she used more?

Stashing creatures into exile is nice. AFAIK they are safe from whatever your opponent could do, until you choose to bring them out.

Casting creatures with flash though, is literally a game changer. It essentially gives your creatures haste. Makes countering them much harder. And dodges sorcery-speed removal, if only for one turn. And of course, you can destroy combos by having a rule-changing creature jump in at instant speed (like Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines, which disables entering effects for your opponents)

Other creatures become much more versatile and powerful through V, CotW. Maybe the best example is Yorion, Sky Nomad (on enter, exile any number of other permanents you control and return them at the next end step). If your army would get wiped, or Vivien herself removed, flash Yorion in, pack all your stuff in a neat box, and unpack everything once the threat has gone. If you can return Yori to your hand, that’s similar to a reusable Teferi’s Protection.

Also worth mentioning, opponent’s greed and combat tricks. Most people will attack Vivien with just enough to get her killed, and otherwise attack your life. Between declare attackers and declare blockers, you can throw in more creatures and completely screw their attack.

So … cheap, versatile, powerful, and kind of unique. Is she underrated or what are your thoughts/reasons for why she shouldn’t be used?

  • TehPers@beehaw.orgEnglish
    2·
    6 days ago

    She was played a little in standard, but suffers from a couple problems. On an empty board, she can’t protect herself from attacks, and her -2 can miss (and you end up just exiling something random). Giving creatures flash is her most interesting ability in my opinion, but for 3 mana, she doesn’t attack or block on her own, and you usually would rather just play a creature instead.

    I like her design, but if she had a way to better defend herself, I think she’d see more play. The -2 and static are okay, but there are better things you can play on turn 3 in most decks.

    • Spzi@lemm.eeOPEnglish
      2·
      6 days ago

      Makes sense, thanks for your insight!

      I experienced the problems you mention and guess my question is answered now :)

      However, here’s how I deal with it, my workaround:

      On an empty board,

      • if playing against black, I use -2. She is likely to get sacrificed, so I opt to replace the card worst case
      • if playing against red or haste, I use +1. She might still be killed, but dealing 5 damage is some effort and requires one or two cards or actions for the opponent usually.

      Against flying creatures, she offers some protection by giving reach. Ground creatures are usually tougher than birds, which can prevent further attacks. Or fail, if the reach blocker is removed.

      In a creature disadvantage, I keep her in hand unless I desperately want to “super”-draw a creature instead.

      The downsides are real, but kind of manageable. Maybe it depends on the rest of the deck, if flashing creatures is important enough. I thought of using that 4 mana blue enchantment, but that’s even more expensive (unless lucky in start hand).

      You’re right, I think this whole post is about “Giving creatures flash”. If that’s my actual goal, is there a better way in MTG Arena Historic?

      • TehPers@beehaw.orgEnglish
        2·
        6 days ago

        If you only need a turn of flash, then Emergence Zone gives all your spells flash this turn for 2 mana. Newer Arlinn can give creature spells flash and create blockers (though day/night makes this inconsistent), Borne Upon a Wind is like Emergence Zone but needs blue, and some other blue cards (including the leyline but also some creatures) can give creature spells flash.

        Otherwise, outside of creatures with flash built onto them, you usually aren’t playing creatures with flash, but using instants (Collected Company) or abilities (Aether Vial - not on Arena) to put creatures out at instant speed. You might find that uncounterable creatures are almost as effective, but much easier to find (or setup) and higher power than creatures with flash.

        Edit: I should add that spirits as an archetype is largely a flash deck and might interest you.

  • mos@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2·
    7 days ago

    I want cheap planeswalkers like these to work but I find that if they don’t do anything to protect themselves when they come out or something significant like removal (ie Liliana) they aren’t competitive enough.

    • Spzi@lemm.eeOPEnglish
      1·
      7 days ago

      Fair point, thanks. I feel even if she gets removed by a spell right away, that’s okay, because we just traded one card each. If she soaks up damage by immediately dying from an attack, that’s like getting 5 HP for 3 mana, which I consider an okish deal. That could be said for any PW. Your point still stands though.