Posting here bc it’s just YouTube drama, but Hasan rightly being called out by “Small Talk Kills” (LexLoser on rednote, recently banned or deleted from TikTok)

    • ANarcoSnowPlow [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 month ago

      His role, imo, is to provide a more gentle onboarding for those of us still riddled with brain worms that we don’t even feel.

      He’s far more well informed and educated than he appears.

      His attachment to the Dems, again imo, is a way for de-worming libs to be able to say to themselves “I’m not advocating for a complete revolution! That’s crazy! I just want things to be better!”

      So, at the same time, he exposes people on his channel regularly to more radical sources like BadEmpanada without ideological criticism. In fact, he says things like “we need BadEmpanada! We need this kind of hard-line guy to point out our contradictions on the left. These guys are an important part of the left.”

      • starkillerfish [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        1 month ago

        i like it when he shows radical sources or has guests from socialist orgs, it just seems that Hasan normalises imperialist socialist positions (Bernie, AOC) quite frequently lately. i think Hasan’s politics/education as an individual are fine, that’s why I’m confused why he holds Dems to such a high standard. he thinks he can push them left but it only legitimises/redwashes their policies. I guess the ultimate question here is who gains more from Hasans relationship with the Dems, the (actual) left or the d party.

        • ANarcoSnowPlow [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          I, personally, don’t think he thinks he can actually move the Democratic party. In fact that’s part of what has moved me further left.

          I watched them ratfuck the DNC and not allow a single Palestinian voice on stage. I watched them completely ignore someone who has the ear of people within the party. I watched them completely implode the last election. They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. All by ignoring the material conditions of the vast majority of us.

          The system we live in, in the imperial core, doesn’t allow for third parties to actually win, a third party historically must become one of the two parties or die. Armed with this knowledge, watching someone far more influential than me try and fail to influence the system as it exists did more to bring me left than years of reading things and having people more left than I was yell at me.

          As someone who has moved further left, in no small part due to Hasan’s outreach, I have to say I think there’s some method to the madness.

          Edit: trying to avoid words that may trigger our alphabetic friends.

      • spectre [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 month ago

        Yes it’s good for both of these videos to exist, Hasan should keep doing exactly what he’s doing, and more creators should make critical videos like this. That’s effective propaganda.

        Hasan deciding to be “more correct” today on his stream would not be effective propaganda. He would lose a third of his audience over night, and another third over the next couple weeks after they see that he’s serious and not going back. They aren’t going to come with him, most anyone who remains is already consuming leftier content. Have more leftier content like this creator is what’s needed so that people have “stops” along the way.

        The American right has a complete spectrum of content with multiple options at each level. We need to stop losing to the chuds.

        • starkillerfish [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          1 month ago

          the problem with this logic of appealing to the masses is where to draw the line? whats are the things you can compromise and why? constantly appealing to the majority opinion will just lead you to adopt reactionary positions.

          im not sure having a spectrum of content (joe rogan of the left) is the solution here

          • spectre [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 month ago

            I’m not suggesting “constantly appealing to the majority opinion”. Your other questions are valid. The answer to both is “whatever will effectively communicate a leftward viewpoint”.

            Hasan connects his audience to content that is more left than him through collaborations and open shout outs. Next step is for others to produce content like this that is now directly critical of him. Nothing Hasan does pushes his audience rightward, they have the opportunity to like AOC and Bernie and either stay there or move on.

            I also would never take someone seriously about hating Bernie from the left, if they never liked Bernie at some point pre-2020. “Being normal” is more effective propaganda than “being right”. The trump era shows clearly that nobody gives a shit about the facts. If you want to build a left, it means having some sort of mass appeal. This can be done without sacrificing core principles.

            • starkillerfish [she/her]@hexbear.net
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              1 month ago

              yeah i agree with you. mass appeal is needed, i’m just super cautious how it is/should be done on the left. it feels more geared towards softening/abandoning core principles, rather than effective communication as you said.

            • I don’t watch streamers and stuff but I generally agree with your points about Hasan’s role. What’d you mean by this though?

              I also would never take someone seriously about hating Bernie from the left, if they never liked Bernie at some point pre-2020.

              • spectre [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 month ago

                I’m coming on a bit strong in my phrasing (I don’t fully agree with myself there), but I have a bit of a difficult time imagining someone in the US having strong socialist convictions without having been pro-bernie in '16 or '20 or both.

                I suppose it’s possible, and it’ll eventually become commonplace as there are many young people who never had the opportunity to see the Bernie campaigns in real time.

                It just would be odd to me for someone to be like “yeah Ive thought of Bernie as a Zionist bastard since 2002” vs “yeah Bernie seemed like our best hope when he was running, but obviously that was crushed by the establishment and he refused to evolve any further, so there is no place for him in the future left at this point” or something along those lines.

                • Ah, yeah, that makes sense. There were a lot of people at the time that did shit on him though. I was past liberal electoral politics by 2016, but I also wasn’t as young as most of his supporters anyway, so I wasn’t too enthusiastic about Bernie but still did prefer a Bernie win against the rest. My friends dunked on me even for that back then. I just knew it wouldn’t ultimately lead to what everyone wanted, much less anything revolutionary, he just seemed like a compromise.

                  Although I’m sure some people who knew about him better probably did specifically reject Bernie for being a Zionist for a long time. I just didn’t pay any attention to him until 2016, I’m sure most didn’t either, so it was easy to not notice his shit stances. It’s an age and information thing though. I can see how Bernie would’ve been a magnet for radicalizing for 16-21 year olds at the time. That’s essentially how we got the DSA that we have today, which isn’t great but whatever.

                  I was always just kinda lukewarm on him.

          • spectre [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 month ago

            Double commenting cause I wanted to tie this to real life: since November I can pretty confidently yeah Democrats for their failures to stop Trump when talking to my local liberals. I can also safely recommend they watch Hasan who does the pipelining that I already explained. I can also confidently say to them “yeah I don’t agree with everything he says, but he makes good points and stuff”. Of course, I’m coming at it from the other side, but it will produce good discussion opportunities. This is effective propaganda.

          • RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            I can’t say that I’ve seen him adopt any reactionary positions as yet. In 2020, while in lockdown, I started watching Hasan, and since then, I’ve actually grown beyond some of Hasan’s public “takes”. Now when I watch his content, I do find myself being critical of what he might have to say, or who he is engaging with. I, too, am not interested in hearing what Sanders and AOC have to say at this point. I view them as a lightning rod for revolutionary energy, to redirect it into the ground. That being said, they are also attracting people, potentially younger people than me, to the same train of thought that led me to my current positions. Movement building doesn’t happen overnight. I took decades for people like Ho Chi Men, Mao, and the Bolsheviks to build their parties and undertake their revolutions. When revolution came, they had built dual power in their countries, they had gathered support from within their militaries, and were in prime positions to sustain their revolutions. The Bolsheviks formed by splintering off from the Mensheviks, the Russian Social Democratic Party of the time. Obviously, the Russian context in the early 1900s is very different from the American Context now. However, though, in America, we do not even have a party of “Social Democrats” to fight against Republicans and Democrats alike. We can call the Democratic Party the “moderate wing of fascism” all we want, but let us be honest here, there is no “moderate wing of fascism” in America, there is just Fascism.

            So with all that being said, as long as the critiques of Hasan are coming from the left, that just presents as opportunities for viewers to consider those positions, and potentially move further left. I can’t say one way or the other, as an outsider, what Hasan’s intentions are with brushing up even closer with the Democratic Party. It could be argued that due to their current internal crisis over the response to Donald Trump, that now is the right time to agitate in such a way that moves people to Independent or even 3rd party choices. Could Hasan be attempting to insert himself into this crisis as a means of pushing that line? Is he simply trying to become a functional asset to that movement? His actions make me speculate that could be the case. However, I have no way of really knowing. What I do know, though, is that Burnie has found himself in this position, yet again. He is building popular support for a popular message, using working-class framing. He clearly believes this is the path forward. Likewise, he is on record saying people should consider running as Independents instead of Democrats, so even he isn’t fully committing people to the Democrats here. Still. From 1990 to 2024, Sanders has raked in a cool $80,000+ from Pro-Israel interest groups, $800+ in 2024 alone. AOC over her lifetime in office sits at $387. It’s difficult to ignore.

            Could a rise in “Social Democracy” eventually lead to a rise in support for “Socialist” movements? I have no idea. I do know that America is ideologically far behind in that regard. Because we’re faced with these realities every day, I feel like we lose sight of the long game. We want things to change now, or next week, when we (as in American Socialists) do not even have the same level of support we’ve historically had in the past. At it’s peak, that level of support was 5% of the population. I don’t know what building that movement would look like. I often look into Socialist parties in the country and find that every Socialist has some critique, complaint, or issue with every other Socialist party. Some are material, like being a cult, some seem to come down to a meme, like being a Trot with a Newspaper.

            The binary of the Burnie Bro and its consequences are in full display. The collapse of Burnie’s campaign in 2016 pushed people into both left wing, and right-wing populist circles, leading us here and now. We couldn’t capture all those Burnie Bros on the left then, but it should be worth trying to capture them this time around. Maybe this is the calculous Hasan is making, who can say.

            • starkillerfish [she/her]@hexbear.net
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              1 month ago

              thank you for such a detailed reply! im also not even sure what Bernie is attempting to do right now. Build up to a presidential campaign as an independent? Surely he understands that the dems arent going to let him anywhere near the nomination. and if he’s not doing it for his presidency, what type of movement is he trying build?

              • RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                It is a very odd situation. Maybe he is trying to build broad support for his message to prove to the Democrat establishment that this message works, and they should be adopting it. I know some democratic senators have already tried adopting his working-class message, regardless of how forced it sounds coming out of their mouths. There is a current of moderate Democrats who really hate this idea, and are actively resisting it within the part apparatus. I’ve presumed, since this whole crisis started, that this crisis could lead to a fracturing of the Democratic Party. I don’t know if that leads to a 3rd party, or if that means the moderate Democrats just become moderate Republicans. This contradiction is driving these developments, and who can say when or how it will end.

                Burnie denied that he was building a new party, he said that “now isn’t the time”. It begs the question, though, “if not now, then when?”. Maybe now is not the right time because he still believes he can win over the Democrats. The midterms are very likely where this message will be tested, along with the Democratic Party as a whole. Though, I think, a crushing defeat in the mid-terms would lead to the splitting of the Democratic Party, I’m not sure what things look like at the end of these 8 years. At that point, it might be too late to form another party at all. Maybe he has plans sooner. I really think if him, and the progressive caucus were to split off the Democrats and form their own party, it would absolutely gain traction. The timing of such a thing would be critical, however.

        • quarrk [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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          1 month ago

          I follow your logic but I disagree it’s the right strategy. Communists have to be righteous even when it’s unpopular. If it doesn’t win “hearts and minds” then the people are simply not ready or willing to be on the correct side.

          There are no magic words that will convince someone to have good politics unless they were ready for it before you crossed paths.

          Taking some kind of multi-pronged approach where we have left-content at all stages of radicalization is not going to consistently land people at communism. Instead you get the majority of people at the center-left, a smaller amount at social-democrat, and a pittance at communist. Pretty much what @starkillerfish@hexbear.net was saying.

          Muddying of waters is the main and most damaging result obtained from this strategy.

          The American right has a complete spectrum of content with multiple options at each level. We need to stop losing to the chuds.

          They can do this because they have no theory and they don’t stand by anything. That is a luxury that communists can never enjoy

      • Cimbazarov [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        I used to think that about Hasan as well, but supporting Bernie and AOC is going the opposite direction and moving people that couldve continued down the leftist pipeline back towards the center.

        I think he pointed out something interesting after the election where a lot of leftist content creators who were supporting the Dems lost a lot of subscribers, and he did not, which he attributed it to him being more critical of the Dems than the others. I think this is true, and people are yearning for a unbiased opinion that matches with reality. I think, for this reason, now is the best time to break with the Democratic party, but instead he is just redirecting these people who have lost faith in the Dems back towards the Dems in the form of the progressive wing, which are not revolutionary and serve the status quo.

      • ratboy [they/them]@hexbear.net
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        As cringy as established leftists might find this I think you have something here. I just checked his videos on YouTube, and the one with AOC and Bernie has double the views of any of his other content in this timeframe; the interview with Vivian is getting close but not quite there. So out of those like 250k people who were only watching for bernie/AOC, let’s say even 100 become new, semi regular viewers, then they will be exposed to more of his ideals, and maybe half of those end up watching badempanada or the deprogram through him. Thats more people than I would ever flip in a lifetime I’m sure

    • quarrk [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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      Haven’t seen this guy miss on anything yet. He was @L3xlos3r on TikTok but he either got banned or deleted his account. Now on RedNote tho as LexLoser.

      Totally unrelated page but another good one, @comrade_sinque is a Marxist ex convict

    • TraschcanOfIdeology [they/them, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      Supposing Hasan isn’t grifting from the left, I think his brand of political change requires commandeering the American state to implement policy, which being realistic, can only happen if the dems take over. No other party has nearly the resources or the infrastructure to exert power on a national level. When it comes to entryism vs. vanguardism, he chooses the former for the potential of short term gains, and because it doesn’t require a revolution to effect change.

      • starkillerfish [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        1 month ago

        yes, after thinking about it some time i agree. it just feels like entryism is not much easier than vanguardism, it also requires an incredible amount of coordination to pull public opinion and funding. at that point might as well create a new party?