slowly starting to process everything that has been said across the threads about this and I have questions. I would prefer to wait to process things more before posting, but I’m worried the thread will get locked before I’m ready.

(if you have DM’d me, I will reply eventually ❤️)

I have concerns and questions about the way mistakes are handled here that will echo things said during the Great -Tank Comms Struggle Session of two weeks ago. this is not an attempt to reignite it; the possibility of doing it is terrifying, but I feel compelled to try to get at the heart of the problem expressed by many neurodivergent comrades therein, and I have fresh personal experience with the importance of this problem.

we make social mistakes because social difficulties are part of our disability. punishing people for crossing hidden and ill-defined red lines is ableist, especially when there’s been no other reason to doubt that person’s good faith.

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Questions & Concerns:

• can someone help me read this quote

For active hexbear users, we do encourage a mod sending a warning message, however that is not required. We frequently give 1 day temp bans without such a warning and while we do wish we had more mod tools available, we work with what we’ve got.

from @CARCOSA’s comment here in a way that isn’t contradictory with @Lyudmila’s statement that you would not be banning users for a single upvote anymore?

this indicates to me that the exact same thing could happen again if I’m not exceedingly careful with my upvotes, which absolutely I will try to be, but I just know myself well enough to know that I’m going to fuck up again eventually. 🤷 if perfection is the standard to not have my RSD triggered to that degree, this is not a safe place for me.

• did none of the other upvotes I made in that thread matter or make anyone question whether I actually agreed with that comment?

I looked back at the thread this morning, and I see that I had also upvoted queermunist’s reply to the objectionable comment (most of the other replies to it were made after leaving the thread to read other things and then go touch grass, sometime after which I was banned)

other comments in the thread that I upvoted:
https://hexbear.net/comment/5659695 (and several replies)
https://hexbear.net/comment/5659596
https://hexbear.net/comment/5659550

idk if there’s a way to check the timestamp of when I voted on these things to prove that it was during that same initial viewing of the thread, but I hope so, especially when you’re using a “pattern of activity” for bans.

afaik, I don’t have a track record of consistently problematic upvotes, but I know my AuDHD self well enough to know that I’ve probably similarly marked a thing planning to come back to it and then totally forgotten, or just been autistic or uneducated enough to not understand the subtext that a better-informed mod is getting, or just not noticed that my thumb hit the button when I browse with my phone on night-mode, which is grayscale and makes it impossible to tell if I voted unless I see the little bear spin.

• is it not policy to look at contravening comments in the thread and see how many of the problematic upvoters voted on them, too? would that not indicate something other than support for reactionary views and merit deeper consideration?

the description of the “vote audit” process makes it sound like a fair bit of work, only a single comment at a time that was specifically requested (a process which includes both mods and users??), and names that stick get punished, except sometimes it’s a first offense and that’s okay but also it’s not.

getting context sounds onerous, but it seems unfair and misguided to ban people for poor upvotes without taking them into context with their other upvotes. how do you establish a “pattern of upvote activity” without context? being highly selective in your choice of data points does not demonstrate a pattern. and apparently you don’t actually need a pattern of activity for a one-day ban anyway because those shouldn’t matter that much to anyone.

• is there a threshold number of upvotes on a terrible comment that triggers a vote audit? it seems like lots of things get removed without triggering an audit and collective punishment. is it based more on the awfulness of the content? is it entirely up to the mod removing the comment or are there rules for when something must be audited? how do users request an audit and action against the upvoters?

• it seems like even if a single upvote wouldn’t merit a ban anymore (except it might!), going for a ban based on a “pattern of upvotes” when their upvote action is removed from the context of their other upvotes and actions and when someone has given you no other reason to think they’re secretly a reactionary bigot is still misguided and cruel. especially when there were so many of your neurodivergent comrades telling you in the Great -Tank Comms Struggle Session of two weeks ago that we would welcome being called out on things so we can learn, because difficulties with social cues is an inherent part of our disabilities, and we want to both Be Better but also just not accidentally hurt anyone.

we’re constantly getting accidentally hurt ourselves, we know what it’s like when nobody gives a shit about your feelings, we are your allies or we wouldn’t be here.

Hexbear: you want to be a safe and welcoming place for leftists, especially leftists from marginalized communities, but you are so quick to reject even the perception of bigotry that you are inherently unsafe to many comrades attracted by that expressed ethos.

I would like to believe that a single poor upvote will no longer be enough reason to ban someone, but that’s super unclear, and also I guess I’m confused why it ever has been, or why there isn’t further investigation of activity around questionable votes if mods are presuming intentions from them.

• is the power to ban vested in each mod individually, or does it require consultation? I think I had assumed the latter but am coming to understand that it might be the former, which feels like a giant lightbulb moment for my understanding of site dynamics and interpersonal issues.

• what is the policy on modlog deletions? how can your neurodivergent comrades hope to understand the rules when their application is often hidden and unequal?

and then my most important question:

• what is the Code of Conduct for the mod team?

there are people on the mod team with usernames that often appear above “deleted by mod”, often for “hostility” – could you please help me understand how upvote activity is more impactful for creating a hostile environment than open hostility from mods? (are the people who upvoted those comments punished?)

it doesn’t seem unreasonable for there to be higher standards for mod behavior, but it seems like they’re actually lower. I completely understand wanting to give your friends/coworkers extra grace, but also, certainly you must understand how this fosters an in-group/out-group dynamic that contributes to a hostile environment.

I hope we can discuss these questions with assumption of good intentions from the people we disagree with and that the thread will stay unlocked long enough to discuss them.

it takes autistic people longer to process things. I know that is not convenient. 🤷